How to convince bad players that they are bad

How to convince bad players that they are bad

I once met an awful whistle player who thought he was so brilliant and I couldn’t do anything to get rid of him. Anyone have any suggestions (NB, no offence meant to anyone, I don’t tell people that they are sh*t just that they could be better but they never listen to me)

Re: How to convince bad players that they are bad

Sensitively, but leave them with the hope that they can improve. If this doesn’t work, let them hear a recording of themselves.
Trevor

Re: How to convince bad players that they are bad

This ALWAYS works:

Ask them their name and when they start to reply say, “Who cares!” And then throw your pint in their face (a full pint works best). Then quickly, while they’re still stunned, stand them up and jerk their pants down to their ankles. Make elephant noises and then push them backward into a waiting wheel-barrow (be sure to have one of your cronies park the barrow apropriately before hand). Then wheel them out at full speed while humming “Ride of the Valkyries” until you hit the doorway and then dump them into the street. Throw their instrument out after them and yell, “Give us a tune!” in Scots Gaelic. Slam the pub door while screaming, “Bananna-fishbones! Bananna-fishbones!” Return to the circle and play the Kesh at 330 while everyone pats you on the back and dedicates their next set to your good name.

Anything less and they’ll just keep coming back, week after week.

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There’s no point in being negative to someone unless you think it will have a positive outcome. The people to whom I refered on the the other thread Alistair linked are harmless, but I haven’t been back to that session. But I wouldn’t have the heart to say anything to them. So that’s local Tuesday nights out of the picture for me.

Re: How to convince bad players that they are bad

Grymater, thanks! Made me laugh. 🙂

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Laugh? Why? What the hell is so funny?

Re: How to convince bad players that they are bad

You said “play the Kesh at 330”, when everyone knows it’s normally played at 335. Hilarious!

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I think Conan should get a “funny-man” prize.

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Re: How to convince bad players that they are bad

So THAT’S why they did that to me…well, screw ‘em then–if they had let me use my metronome at their stupid session like I tried to in the first place this whole debacle wouldn’t have taken place…

Re: How to convince bad players that they are bad

leave them alone! if they think they’re hot stuff, and they are not, then leave them be. if you want to even bother, tell them what to work on. but not like a jerk. and it would nice if you only said something when they asked. being mean just makes them more resolute not to change.

and besides. you’re not all that great, i’m sure. even if you’re amazing, who cares. enjoy the music! no matter what, even if you are the best in the world, pretty soon someone else will come along that is better. there were always be people better than you, and always people that are worse. and some of them in both sides will think they are amazing when they are just delusional. instead of teaching them some humility, why dont you learn some more your self and learn to not try and show them how bad they really are?

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Re: How to convince bad people that they are bad

I once met an awful human being who thought he was so brilliant and I couldn’t do anything to get rid of him. Anyone have any suggestions (NB, no offence meant to anyone, I don’t tell people that they are sh*t just that they could be better but they never listen to me)

Hmmm…does that put this in perspective?

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Or, Shocking things people have said to me that helped me to improve in the long run

From a fiddle player:

“That flute will sound really nice when you learn to fill it…”

That one hurt, and I ignored it as best I could. But 10 years later, I do think he was right, and it did.

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Re: How to convince bad players that they are bad

Daiv…
deep but accurate.
Well done.

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Re: How to convince bad players that they are bad

The world does not want to be saved by you. This is true at the individual level, too.

People don’t change unless they want to change…you can’t do it for them.

Most people are doing the best they can with what they have, so they couldn’t do any better even if they did listen to you.

And finally, sometimes it’s best to just let people be themselves–it consoles them for not being anything else.

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Re: How to convince bad players that they are bad

P.S. I should explain that the above is advice I give myself all the time….

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Re: How to convince bad players that they are bad

daiv- i agree with you, but what if you do it in a positive manner, constructive cristism? I mean, if they are constantly at the session, then I would assume they were looking to improve at their playing, so why not help them out a bit?

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Re: How to convince bad players that they are bad

Tunelover,
I think Daiv did this in his post…
“tell them but not like a jerk” is what Daiv said

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Re: How to convince bad players that they are bad

I agree with daiv. Why should anyone judge someone else like that- about anything in fact! Thought all this was supposed to be fun and sociable? We all start off “bad” whatever that is and only by trying and playing will we get any better. Tolerance?

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i agree! no matter what, at every session there are going to be people who are more skilled than some others… but if you tell the lesser skilled musicians to leave, how are they going to get better?? playing more=better musician. everyone doesn’t start off as some brilliant player. everyone works up to the level that they are at, mainly by keeping playing.

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Ugh. Nothing like an overwhelming need to chase off “bad” players to kill craic, sessions, and the music in general. While everyone is in a different category musically, invariably we all started as “bad”. One might think that honey would do better than vinegar - that is, unless our aim is to transform ITM into elitist snobbery.
If I were to make any suggestion, it would be to transform one’s attitude toward the “bad” player - not for any highminded, altruistic reason, but for the simple fact that learning to work and play with others no matter their skill and attitude will increase one’s own enjoyment of the music immensely.

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eoion -thx! ^_^

and will harmon - thats some good advice. and, haha, yeah, its the type of thing we all have to tell ourselves all the time. the difference is some people tell themselves more than others.

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Re: How to convince bad players that they are bad

But I also believe that sessions aren’t good places to air your dirty linen. Better to practice up at home first so you have the basic skills (decent intonation, ability to keep a steady beat, tolerable tone, a few tunes under your belt) before taking your “chops” down to the local pub. And then find a session where your skill level won’t be a drag on the tunes and craic.

Of course, you can tell someone all this without humiliating them. I like to use myself as an example, and explain how I didn’t try to sit in at a proper session until I’d played for a few years, and that a really good fiddler taught me how important it is to listen to the other players and not detract from what they’re doing. And that this advice applies no matter how expert your playing becomes.

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Re: How to convince bad players that they are bad

I agree Will, it’s not that I mind bad players, just the ones who think they are the best person there, when everyone else in the room knows they aren’t

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Where’s Jack?
I’m sure he would have an opinion on this….
😉

Re: How to convince bad players that they are bad

Perhaps my prescription above is a bit much, maybe even a wee bit impractical…I bow jealously, as usual, to Will Harmon’s wisdom and subtlety.

I still think it’s best to humiliate them though; if you don’t stomp them out now, one day they’ll be sporting their ambiguously-Scots kilt, goose-stepping through the pubs, and rounding up minorities to force them to learn to shake that sand-filled egg with alacrity.

Maybe spitballs and name-calling are the way to go–it worked in middle school, so why not now, in the big-people-grown-up-world? I hope to get out for the Diddly this weekend, so I’ll be sure to report back to y’all on Monday.

Re: How to convince bad players that they are bad

My prescription is never enough…

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Re: How to convince bad players that they are bad

Heh, grymater, and here’s me just polishing up the ol’ wheelbarrow, thinking I’d maybe take it for a spin next week….

Snowyowl, what you’re describing is the Emperor’s New Clothes syndrome. My hand-me-down advice above still applies–a naked person showing off his fine new clothes will not listen to you if you point out his nakedness. Also, I’d be careful presuming to know what everyone else in the room is thinking. They may well be admiring his green spandex jumpsuit and hot pink go-go boots, nevermind the multi-color feather boa….

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Re: How to convince bad players that they are bad

When people show up at jam sessions and they just arn’t any good, that ok, because they are their to learn. (I was horrible and terrified at my first session)…but true, its the ones that think they are all that- they really bug you… still, you are just stooping to their level if you degrade them in any way. Encourage, give pointers, suggestions, but never ever ever make fun, because, who knows, the guy next to you might just think the same aweful thing about YOU!

Re: How to convince bad players that they are bad

The people that I consider to be truly great people and fabulous musicians never make these judgements or get the wheel barrel out. Nothing in fact, seems to throw them off.. I, on the other hand, cannot tolerate poor rhythym, tone deafness and someone asking me all night “what key is this one in??” So, at times- I lose it- and consider myself to be less than…

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Re: How to convince bad players that they are bad

we all get mad at people who think they are better than us, because no matter what, its not cool to do that and it just makes you a worse player (because you are so arrogant you dont try) and it makes life difficult for everyone. i get mad too, but we all just gotta try to deal with it. i agree with cc, all the best musicians i know will talk about someone who is reall full of themselves, regardless if its warranted, and say, “oh yeah, they’re great! i love them”; we could all benefit from this attitude.

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