Do you speak Irish?

Do you speak Irish?

I am learning to play the piano using a book called Seinn an Piano by Geraldine Cotter. So far, the tunes I have learnt how to play are, amongst others, Ta’n Coileach ag Fogairt an Lae, Nead na Lachan sa Mhuta and Donal na Greine (please forgive the missing accents). I would be grateful if you were to tell me how to pronounce these titles and to translate them into English for me.

Re: Do you speak Irish?

Sorry - can’t help, but you’ll get more comedy answers than just JonhJ’s, so I might as well put in my two pennorth.

Round here they’d become:

The College in Fogarty Lane
Ned Lackan’s Mutt
Donald Green

Good luck with your search.

Re: Do you speak Irish?

The accents are called FADA’s
pronounced ….


Taw an kwillach egg fogert on lay

nead na lakan sa voota

donal na grayne

Re: Do you speak Irish?

In Donegal dialect, something like:

Tawn Killyach a’ fogirch un lah
Nyad na la’han sa wuh-ta
Dough-nal na greyn-yih

C

Re: Do you speak Irish?

sorry - Translate too???

The cock is announcing the day, - the cock is crowing
(me thinks!!)

Ive no idea what mh sa mhuta is - never heard of it…
but the rest means the ducks nest - sa means "in the" so mhuta is all u need to no…

Donal Na Greine - Is a name I think. It means Donal of the …..
Dunno what Greine is - are you sure its spelt correctly?

Re: Do you speak Irish?

Actually I think muta should actually be mbuta (with a fada on the u) in which case it’s the duck’s nest in the barrel.

Na greine means "of the sun" - it’s the genitive of grían, "sun".

Re: Do you speak Irish?

Ahhh good man Conan
Thought grian was sun - but its still a name eh?

never heard muta in me life!!!!!

Re: Do you speak Irish?

Aye, "Dónal of the sun". Very poetic, but sure you get a lot of that poetic language in Irish: The Children of Lír, The Sons of Mill, Niall of the Nine Hostages, er, Seán of the Dead :¬)

Never heard of múta either!

Re: Do you speak Irish?

….. Roy of the Rovers ….

Re: Do you speak Irish?

the closest i can come to is MHUTA - and thats a lout or a useless person no?

Re: Do you speak Irish?

According to my beloved FGB, "muta" (no fada) is a spelling variant of "buta," which means a cask (as in a "butt" of wine)…so whoever suggested "barrel" was on the right track. "Mhuta" is the inflected (lenited) form that comes after the preposition i/sa ("in").

A really good place for translations and pronunciation help (and my other primary hangout) is http://www.irishgaelictranslator.com . There’s a whole bunch of us on the forum there who either speak Irish or are learning it, and we just love to help out with this kind of thing.

Re: Do you speak Irish?

These are all good flute/whistle/pipe tunes.

Ta Coileach Fogairt an Lae (forgive the spelling and lack of fadas) is "When the Cock Crows It is Day".



I don’t have a translation for "Nead na lachan etc" the tune is a version of the Foxhunter’s Slip Jig.

The last one is more commonly known as "Donnybrook Fair" or "The Joy of My Life".

Re: Do you speak Irish?

"Nead an lachan sa mhuta" is "the duck’s nest in the barrel"

Re: Do you speak Irish?

In the two printed versions I have seen of the song there is a fada on the "u", so "sa mhúta" rather than fada-less "sa mhuta". Don’t know where this puts your otherwise plausible "muta = buta = barrel" theory. The literal translation of "Ta an C " etc is as given above "the cock is announcing the day".

Re: Do you speak Irish?

I’m guessing it’s a typo (the fada), as the only translation any of my dictionaries has for "múta" is "lout" or "worthless person," which makes no sense at all.

"Láchán" (with fadas over both "a’s") can mean "simpleton," but that still doesn’t fit, as then you’d have "The nest of the simpleton in the lout (or barrel), which makes even less sense!

I’m going to run this by the folks at IGTF…maybe they can shed some light. There are definitely dialect differences out there, as well as "literary" changes that can occur, and some of our folks over there have seen just about every twist and turn Irish can take.

Re: Do you speak Irish?

I favour the múta = mo (fada) ta = moat as someone suggested above. As far as I recall, the song does mention somewhere fetching a currach and crew.

Re: Do you speak Irish?

Can someone post the words to the song (in English or Irish)? That might help us puzzle this one out as well. As we’re always yelling at IGTF: "context please!" ;)

Re: Do you speak Irish?

Conán - As you know, I am not, by any stretch of the imagination, an Irish speaker. However, if I may be so bold, I should like to take issue with your phonetic transcription:

"Tawn Killyach a’ fogirch un lah"

Have you not used ‘ch’ to represent two different sounds? My guess is that the first instance, ‘ch’ is to be pronounced as in ‘Bach’ or ‘loch’, whilst the second instance, it is to be pronounced as in ‘rich’ or ‘chop’.

Re: Do you speak Irish?

Conán - As you know, I am not, by any stretch of the imagination, an Irish speaker. However, if I may be so bold, I should like to take issue with your phonetic transcription:

…Spelling phonetically is always problematic, especially in English, with half a dozen ways of pronouncing every letter and half a dozen ways of writing every sound. Then regional accents come into the equation as well. Everyone should learn to read phonetic script, and keyboards should have phonetic symbols on them. Then there’d be no more misunderstanding in the world.

Re: Do you speak Irish?

Looks like we have a confirmation on "The Duck’s Nest in the Moat!"

Yeah, trying to write Irish sounds with English phonics is a major problem. I’d agree that the broad "ch" in "Coileach" is like the "ch" in "Bach" (kind of like if you start to say a "K" but don’t close your throat all the way), while the slender "t" in "Fogairt" is similar to the English "ch" in "itch."

Re: Do you speak Irish?

I think it’s a great idea to try and get a bit of Irish into the session as it’s all part of the Irish music ethos. We could start with the simple greetings like Dia Dhuit (sounds like geea guitch) and at the end of the night, oíche mhaith (sounds like eeha wah); another useful phrase would be "tá deoch orm" which might result in someone buying you a drink!

Re: Do you speak Irish?

I think "tá deoch uaim" might work better…that’s "I want a drink" ("tá deoch orm" could be interpreted as "I have a drink"). Or, if you want to be wistful and polite, "Ba maith liom deoch." Or there’s always good old "tá tart orm" ("I’m thirsty"…works well if said with a sad look into the bottom of an empty glass and a little bit of a whimper).

A couple of us are trying to revive an Irish language group that used to meet hereabouts…it’s so much more fun when you can actually talk to people!

Re: Do you speak Irish?

be jaysus Conan
Ní raibh a fhios agam go raibh Gaeilge agat! Fair play duit!! Coinnigh ar aghaidh leis a thaisce…

Re: Do you speak Irish?

Go raibh maith agat Mac TireRua. Explains why I got funny looks from people who wondered why I was telling them I had a drink! I’ll be able to express myself níos fear "as gaeilge" at the next session and hopefully get offered that pínta.

Re: Do you speak Irish?

MG to answer your question; ok good point. However I did assume that most people would pronunce -ach (broad) the same way the -ch sounds in loch; whereas the "i" (slender) in the second word would cause people to pronounce it like ith "irch" in birch. Or something like that :¬)

Dia ’ muire duit, a Lara! D’fhoghlaim mé mo chuid Gaeilge ar scoil agus ag Cumann Chluain Árd blianta o shin. B’fheidir go deanaim diarmuid ar cúpla focal gach seachtain. Ach b’fhearr liom Gaeilge briste na Béarla cliste! Tíofaidh mé thú níos maille.

C

Re: Do you speak Irish?

By the way, I don’t know what "ith" means either - typo.

Re: Do you speak Irish?

Haw pal - see yew - ur ye no gonny talk proper, ih?

Re: Do you speak Irish?

someone has to do it

Re: Do you speak Irish?

Danny, I just told everybody that you’ve got an arse the size of a donkey’s! Well, you had to ask…

:¬)

Re: Do you speak Irish?

Nah, that’s my mouth

Hee-Haw

Re: Do you speak Irish?

Mind you Danny, you could have been speaking Irish too. After all, Glasgow is often referred to affectionately as being the Capital of Donegal. :-)

Re: Do you speak Irish?

Glas ghu - the dear green place - green in more ways than one I guess!

Re: Do you speak Irish?

"Orm" literally means "on me," so they may have thought you spilled your beer. ;) It can imply certain types of possession too, as can "ag" (at) and "le" (with). A friend helped me to remember that uses of "ó" (uaim in the first person) by translating Tá deoch uaim as "Is a drink from me (and I wish it were with me!)"

One of the more interesting things about Irish is sorting through all those darned prepositional pronouns.

Re: Do you speak Irish?

Reminds me of the big difference between "is maith liom deoch" (so what !) and "ba mhaith liom deoch" which the teacher at the Gael Linn beginner course in Harcourt Street tried to drum into us some years ago. This was a great course with a lot of interesting people from outside of Ireland too, but it unfortunately clashed with a session night so eventually the music won out and I’m left with the "beagán gaeilge". However, as Conán said earlier on "… b’fhearr liom Gaeilge briste na Béarla cliste!"

Re: Do you speak Irish?

Is docha gur mi thuiscint e, a Chonain, ach na bith buartha, deanaim meancog achan la. Ni thuig liom fada ar bith a fhail ar riomhaire s`agamsa, nach bhfuil sin greanmhaire?
Rinne tu job maith cibe ar bith, anois, caithfidh muidinne a bheith ag cleachtadh ar gcuid gaeilge anseo in amanna. Cad e a shileann tu?
dia duit
o katiexoxo

Re: Do you speak Irish?

Maith thú wreckin’ rea. Feictear domh gur ceart dúinn Gaeilge a úsáid ar an tsuíomh seo níos minicí. Tá a fhios agamsa go mbíonn daoine achrannach faoi, ach cead acu. Dála an scéil, chonaic mise ‘móta’ scríofa áit ínteacht ar na mallaibh in ionad ‘múta’. B’fhéidir gur cló-earráid a bhí i ‘múta’, nó i ‘móta’, ach bheadh ciall leis dá mba ‘móta’ a bheadh ann cár bith.

Suas leis an Ghaeilge, go maire ár nGaeilge slán agus araile……….

Re: Do you speak Irish?

Maith sibh go léir!