Naming Your Children???

Naming Your Children???

My friend just had a baby girl and he’s going to call her ‘Alba’, after his whistle, how crazy is that?
Anyone out there with children called after instruments? Overton Murphy maybe? or Chanter O’Toole? Genny (short for Generation) O’Neill?
or maybe tunes?
Tamblin Brennan? Jenny Charlie Mulligan? Maggie Drowsy Flynn? Roguery Rogers?
anyway, Congrats to Marac and little Alba Alunic ……

Re: Naming Your Children???

I have a vaguely similar story about a friend of mine who named his daughter after the girl in the Andy Irvine song "Time will cure me". He called her Shabra. I put my foot in it on first hearing this as I thought the name sounded more like Sabaca on the LP. Hopefully I rectified my blunder when I told him Shabra was a nicer sounding name anyway, which it is in my opinion.

A girl I used to work with was unfortunate enough to be named after her dad’s favourite Brandy - Martell.

Re: Naming Your Children???

Our eldest is named Ewan, I suppose largely ‘cos we admired the music and ideals of Ewan MacColl, the great folk singer.

Posted .

Re: Naming Your Children???

Well, I’d Flatley refuse to name a child after a well known performer of Irish dance. 🙂

Re: Naming Your Children???

Yehudi McEwan?

Anyway none of these can be as bad as the Beckhams who named their 1st kid after a district in New York - Brooklyn.

And I’ve heard people naming their kids after football teams - thank goodness they weren’t Arsenal or Fulham supporters.

As for our Fergus and Roisin - we just liked the names.

Re: Naming Your Children???

What, Michael? what’s wrong with that?

Re: Naming Your Children???

I know a couple who named their children Steppe,Savannah and Tundra.There’s a little girl in our town who was named Heavenleigh,poor child.I know a boy called Frodo.It seems to be fashionable to give children daft names.There should be a law against it to protect the innocent.

Re: Naming Your Children???

Yes, let them choose their own daft names when they grow up, e.g Jocklet, Pingu, or The Wounded Hussar. 😉

Re: Naming Your Children???

So you prefer Rab C. Nesbitt, then, John?

Re: Naming Your Children???

Believe it or not, where I live the law forbids giving kids daft names. But people still find a loophole. This must be some powerful drive.

Re: Naming Your Children???

what about tunes named after children?
i’m in the proces of writing a tune for both of my children (emma, who’s 4 and a half, and alexander who’s only 7 months), but i think of waiting till i can find out what kind of tune they like best.
mm

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

I believe there are similar laws in Scandinavian countries.

Re: Naming Your Children???

I’ve no children - but Dzoni — I’d just like to bring up a point about the word ‘Alba’ . After a friend of mine bought his Alba whistle from a mailorder retailer, it became apparent that people seem to pronouce ‘Alba’ just the way it is spelled. This NOT correct.
‘Alba" is pronounced [alapa] with all long a’s. In Gaidhlig/ Scottish Gaelic this is because there is a consonant cluster ‘lb’ that happens in the same part of the mouth, and thus the word must be broken up by interjecting an ‘a’ in the middle - the ‘b’ switching to a ‘p’ is similarly a linguistic phenomenon. ‘Alba’ just means ‘Scotland’ . [Alba Whistles are made in Scotland]

Just thought I’d clarify since so many people seem to think ‘Alba’ is pronounced ‘A - l -b -a-’ instead of ‘A - l - a - p - a’
It is a beautiful word and would make for a beautiful name!

Tioraidh,
Iain

Re: Naming Your Children???

Tell that to my good friend Old-Hag-You-Have-Killed-Me Olafsson.

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

Iburiedmywifeanddancedonhergrave o’Shaughnessy

Re: Naming Your Children???

When I first started teaching in 1978 there was a kid in my class of West Indian extraction who told me it was not unusual for babies to be named after significant current events and that he knew of someone who had been named at the time of a large road opening and went by the amazingly improbable, yet impressive, monicker of Urban Freeway Jones. It still makes me laugh (in a caring, sensitive way of course).

Re: the Beckhams. Their latest offspring is called Cruz, which is a girl’s name ….unfortunately the child is a boy. Perhaps they are Johnny Cash fans.

Re: Naming Your Children???

Well, our cat is named Eliza, which may have someting to do with the young Carthy lass……..but my wife works in the Nursery class of a very mixed-ethnic school, and one of her children is named "God’s Power".
So she comes home one day and says "God’s Power wreaked havoc in the class today". I’m sure it did.

The Beckhams thing is being blown out of all proprtion, I believe Cruz is much the same as english names like Beverley, Leslie, Robin, etc, may be used for either sex. …………now, spot the connection with Irish Traditional Music…..s

Re: Naming Your Children???

The weirdest name I ever heard was the name of a delegate on a course a former colleague was running. It was so odd, my mate kept the name card! The name: Rocket Shoulder.

He was an American but that’s no excuse, not even if he’s from LA.

Someone mentioned tunes named after kids: Nia’s dance (Altan - named after Mairead and Dermot’s daughter) and Níamh’s Capers (I think it’s Gerry banjo O’Connor’s kid) spring to mind.

Re: Naming Your Children???

Did Shakin’ Stevens’ mum play the egg?
Didn’t Frank Zappa call his kid Moonbiscuit or something?

Re: Naming Your Children???

Moon Unit and Dweezel were Zappa’s concoctions. Poor kids. Or poor rich kids.

How about Zowie Bowie?

Re: Naming Your Children???

Zowie Bowie changed his name to John, I think. Rolan Bolan kept his, though…
And we haven’t mentioned Bob Geldof and Paula Yates, who called their children Peaches, Pixie, and Fifi Trixiebell. And then Paula called her youngest daughter Heavenly Hairaani (?)Tiger Lily. Not fair to give such names to humans, in my view. Pretty undignified even for chihuahuas, but at least they’re none the wiser…

I do know someone who is named Elise, after Beethoven’s ‘Fur Elise’. Which is lovely, I think!

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

Sorry, but this sounds like hippie parents naming their kids "Moonbeam" or "Thirdeye." Put that together with hypenated last name and you know the parents are still "tripping," Such as Rainbowbiscuit Maloney-Murphy. My immediate thought is about the kids on a school yard and getting teased about their name. I’m sure the aforementioned name would be abbreviated to M and M (or maybe Eminem).

I knew of a few that grew up to rebel. A few started dressing in army clothes and enlisted as soon as they could. I couldn’t name a son or daughter "Ulliene Bagpipe" -look them in the eye -and not laugh. They would definitely hate me and would want payback the rest of their lives. 😉

Re: Naming Your Children???

I have met people with the surnames ‘Rainbow’ and ‘Music’ - which turned out to be absolutely genuine hereditary surnames, not recent inventions. They must get so bored of saying ‘no, my parents were not hippies, it’s a real name, yes honestly, it is…’

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

This reminds me so much of the Monty Python spoof on election results. One of the candidates I believe had a name which included the words Bing Bang Biscuit-tin.

Re: Naming Your Children???

Nell, I remember being told by a Belgian friend that a long time ago the Dutch didn’t think surnames would catch on so they made them up for a laugh. Unfortunately they did catch on, which explains why there are Dutch people running around with names such as Mijnheer Voorvanachter (Mister Backtofront)

Re: Naming Your Children???

"Uilleann" on its own might slip under the radar.

"Rudall" wouldn;t even raise an eyebrow around here.

One of my former students had the family name "Kluttz"

Re: Naming Your Children???

My favourites are still Matt White, and Annette curtin. And in Irish (Gaelic) Alba is pronounced Alba or even Olba, with no extra a. Thats what makes us different I guess 🙂

Re: Naming Your Children???

There was a fella at my primary school who had a bit of puppy fat - his surname was Burns, so of course we called him Fat Burns.

Re: Naming Your Children???

We had a guy called Burns as well. His knickname was Nuts Burns. I have no idea why!!!!!

Re: Naming Your Children???

Dunno about kids but Dubliners often give their friens an apt epithet.
I know a Banjo Byrnes, a Billy The Box kelly, Fluther Maloney and plectrm carey.

Joe "Bongo" Quinn

Re: Naming Your Children???

Nut Burns…didn’t he write that book "Sliding Down Telephone Poles"?

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

There’s a girl at my daughter’s school who is named "Indigo Prizm." It’s kind of a pretty name, I think, though I think it would have been better to go with "prism" rather than with the spelling of the car’s name! Much worse was the name given to a child at her school in North Carolina: "Precious." Can you imagine that poor child applying for a job in a few years? Ouch!

Two names that are relatively common here are "Sierra" and "Terra."

As for Alba, I don’t think that’s so daft. It’s no different than naming a girl "Erin," which happens all the time.

Santa Cruz county is known for it’s old hippies and thus, for some very strange names. Not long ago I heard a story (possibly apocryphal, but this being Santa Cruz, you never know!) about a little boy’s first day of school in kindergarten. All the children were wearing name tags on their jackets, so the teachers and staff would know what to call them. This little boy went all day with people calling him "Fruit Stand." No one batted an eye…not the kids; not the teachers. It wasn’t until the end of the school day, when his teacher turned his name tag around to check and see which bus stop he needed to get off at that she discovered his real name was "Johnny"!

Re: Naming Your Children???

Alba is actually a Latin word meaning "white."

Re: Naming Your Children???

I met a guy from Mongolia, whose parents were devout communists, and in the honour of late Soviet marshall Kliment Yefremovich Voroshilov they gave him a name Voroshilov Dao Zhu.

Uileann sounds much better than that.

Re: Naming Your Children???

For your baby-naming pleasure:

http://www.notwithoutmyhandbag.com/babynames/index.html

Parents-to-be really need to get a grip. Naming some poor innocent after your current obsession, be it ITM or whatever, or dredging some florid moniker out of the last romance novel you ploughed through before giving birth…..argggh….

Re: Naming Your Children???

… Frodo?

I think I’m going to cry.

Cheers,
Armand

Re: Naming Your Children???

How about first and middle names or first and last names, such as Beau Ron, Beau Zookly, Lowell D Flutie, or Dirk Frothy Guinness. I think someone already posted Amanda Lynne.

Janek: Dao Tzu? Does that sound like a sneeze.
Joe Quinn: At least Billy "the Box" Kelly sounds better that Shiela "the Box" Kelly. In U.S. slang that would be a good name for a reknowned prostitute. If you named your kid Plectrum Carey and gave him that job, at least you wouldn’t be losing your plectrums.
MacTireRua: Johnny probably wants to learn to read now. Good teaching strategy.
Jode: I thought the author of "Sliding Down a Telephone Pole" was Smokey Nuts Burnsoff. 😉

Re: Naming Your Children???

Batlady, I am gobsmacked by that website. It caused a sharp intake of breath, and then a big gulder of swear-words.
Do lots of people really call their little girl McKenzie??

I know I’ve got a strange name but it was an Irish saint’s name long before the Barbarian came along. One of my brothers is called Sorley, or Samhairle - the name of a McDonnell prince who "appropriated" Dunluce Castle. At least they’re real names.

Re: Naming Your Children???

Alba seems a nice enough name, although there are those who might assume she was named after a skin care product.

Naming your kid after a LoTR character is just plain wrong though.
I knew a guy named "Tom" once. His life must have been hell at school.

KFG

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

Yes, Conan, McKenzie is a very common girl’s name here, and one of the more benign.

Re: Naming Your Children???

My dad always explains that, since I was their first child, they finally got tired of looking through the baby book, so they just picked the last name on the list.

The thing is, the baby book said my name means "beautiful woman" or "hospitable woman" from it’s Persian derivation. I have since come to find out that the word "azzina" in one form of Arabic or other basically means "sex before marriage". Many Arabic speaking people, upon being introduced to me by name, have looked startled, said, "I beg your pardon?", and looked stunned upon realizing they heard correctly.

By which I can only imagine that originally my name meant something along the lines of "woman of negotiable affection" or some such.

Thanks, Mom and Dad. ;)

Re: Naming Your Children???

Zina, International Very Friendly Woman of Mystery…

Re: Naming Your Children???

Hey Zina, it could be worse. My great-grandmother was named Sardinia.

(Waiting a moment for that to sink in…) Her brothers were kind and called her Sadie.

But then a normal name doesn’t prevent a ihdeous nickname. Her sister Frances Anne Rose was known in the family as Fanny Annie Rosie Treat.

This is a very old habit. Consider some of the names Puritans had back in the days of the English civil war —- Sword of the Lord Gerson, and his brother Righteous, for instance.
People!

Re: Naming Your Children???

LOL — well, I suppose it could be more like, "International Excessively Hospitable Woman of Mystery", Bat! hehehe

D’you know, though, Sara, generally I give most people I interact with nicknames anyway. Except for my friend Jim, whom I call James, mainly because no one else ever does. Call him James, I mean.

Re: Naming Your Children???

Zina, you’re not alone.
I’m told my last name means
girl who makes men happy. AH, HOW TRUE…or so I’ve been told. At least no complaints so far!

Mary

Re: Naming Your Children???

This is a last name issue. However, this start with a family name might get you in deep trouble with different combinations of first names, middle names or hyphenated last names.

Thomas Crapper is listed as the man that reinvented and flush toilets. There is a museum dedicated to him in London. Try this site:
http://www.swopnet.com/geo_mileshome/Thomas_Crapper.html

😉

Re: Naming Your Children???

Knew a girl in uni whose gynocologist was named Dr. Lecher.

KFG

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

BTW, MM, Shannon Heaton wrote a slip jig for a young dancer and fiddler in our area named Emma. If I can, I’ll get her to notate it out for me and I’ll post it. It’s a good’n.

Re: Naming Your Children???

zina, thanks, that would be great …

mm

(and that was my father’s choice, 4 brothers, all of us mm).
my dad whished i would name my kid starting with ‘m’, but we didn’t, we put ‘mm’ in the middle … eMMa (just made the story up to please him … 😀 … )

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

I worked with a girl from Dublin who was called………. wait for it………….Lasagne. Yup you guessed it her parents loved all things Italian. Ialso know of some one who called their child Tamara, surname Knight, which may sound kind of tame to any one who doesnt live where I do, but, it comes out sounding like *Tomorrow Night* in Belfast.

Re: Naming Your Children???

My sister’s name is Vera. She got a lot of "Vera Lee, Vera Lee, I say unto thee…."

Re: Naming Your Children???

And one might presume that the young lady, in whose honor we are all gathered here today, is going to get a lot of:

"Able was I ere I saw…"

KFG

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

It’s true that even a "normal" name doesn’t keep you from getting into trouble. My given name is Audrey Ella. Now, neither name was particularly common in my hometown of Spokane, WA, in the 1970s, "Audrey" especially. Aside from the horrible nicknames ("Oddball," "Oddity" etc.), there were those people who simply couldn’t believe it was actually "Audrey." I got called "Andre," "Andrea"…even "Andra"! "Ella" wasn’t much better. "Ella Gorella" anyone?

Surnames cause problems too. For some reason, one of my ancestors changed his surname when he moved from wherever he came from originally to Alabama (and he evidently didn’t go the route of changing the name legally, through the court systems, assuming such was even available back then). Consequently, there are tons of people in and from Alabama with the surname "Strength," but tracing our origins from that name is nearly impossible. One website rather doubtfully concludes that it may be Scottish in origin (though I’ve never seen anything like it on any Scottish surname website), but beyond that we have no idea. So when people ask "are you Irish?" or "are you Scottish" or what have you, the best I can answer is "I don’t know…my people are Alabama Strengths!"

Re: Naming Your Children???

My maiden name was Carroll. My eldest sister was born on Dec 22. She went for many years being called the Christmas Carroll.
She stopped celebrating Christmas and eventually changed her name. I can’t blame her!

Re: Naming Your Children???

Then there were the number of times, before I married and leapt at changing my name, I had to tell people, "Yes, Carroll IS my last name. Two R’s and two L’s."

Re: Naming Your Children???

"Your name, please?"

"Zina Lee"

"And your last name, Emily?"

It’s happened far too many times to count.

Re: Naming Your Children???

A friend of mine, who’s surname is Mee, was discussing names for their forthcoming child - I suggested Euan.

Re: Naming Your Children???

we had someone at work with the very unfortunate name of Peter Cox

Re: Naming Your Children???

Was there ever anybody called Paddy O’Snap…? Around here the worst offence is people calling their children by the "Irish" name of … wait for it… KAYLEE! (or Kayleigh). Do they really mean Ceilidh? I’m scared to ask! And my wife, Siobhan is called Sigh O’Bann, times without number, but the kids at school have got the hang of my daughter’s name, Niamh. One day maybe the teachers will too…

Re: Naming Your Children???

My pet "modern name" peeve is "Caitlin" (pro: Kate-lynn around here). Every time I hear of another baby named "Caitlin," I want to scream "don’t you know that’s supposed to be pronounced "Kat-LEEN"????

And then there’s my new niece. Her parents named her "Aisling," but they pronounce it "ACE-ling" (ACE-ee for "short"). Don’t people actually research how names are pronounced before they hang them on their children???

Re: Naming Your Children???

No.

KFG

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

What not to name your baby


By Andy Rathbun

March 2, 2005


The newly released "What Not to Name Your Baby" (Simon Spotlight Entertainment, $7.95) upsets this reporter. My first name, Andy, is in it, and according to author Joe Borgenicht, it signifies that I’m an "uncoordinated … boy with a taste for gingham."

When I point out that I’m quite steady on my feet and prefer stripes, Borgenicht offers his apologies, explaining that some common first names, including his own, have a downside. (As he writes in the book, "Joe is ‘American’ for coffee.") With some names, he says, "There’s not a whole lot of a chance for individuality." At the same time, individuality can have its problems.

Borgenicht found some particularly odd names for the book, all of which he says are registered with the Social Security Administration. Here are 10 of our favorites, along with his reasons to avoid them.

FOR GIRLS:
Chinchilla Zest: "It sounds like some new soap product."
Fantasie: "This should only be used as a stage name for exotic dancers. Period."
Nebula: "A big gassy area in the sky. Probably best avoided."
Rayna: "The stuff that falls in Spaina, but mostly on the plaina."
Sunshine: "A child with this name may not cause cancer but will definitely be irritating."
FOR BOYS:
Acheron: "One of the five rivers of hell. Come on. Please."
Braun: "A supplier of travel accessories best known for its razors and nose-hair trimmers."
Gates: "No amount of money will make this boy attractive to women."
Lucky: "Name will be an ironic reminder of all of his failures."
Red: "A godless communist who hates everything you stand for as an American."
Andy Rathbun of the Medill News Service wrote this for Newsday.
http://www.newsday.com/entertainment/ny-2know-babynames,0,1197167.story?coll=ny-homepage-promo

Re: Naming Your Children???

I once had a clarinet professor who named his daughter Clare Annette.

Poor kid.

Re: Naming Your Children???

What about Colin Powell,he couldn’t even pronounce his own first name.

Re: Naming Your Children???

You mean he couldn’t spell it. C-O-L-O-N.

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

I loved it in one of the Roddy Doyle books where the family dog was called "Larry Gogan."

Two engineer colleagues of mine had surnames "Callery" and "Byrnes." They were planning to visit a fired heater consultant once who thought we were having them on when we said Mister Callery and Mister Byrnes were on their way.

(sorry, only engineering types living in SI unit regions will appreciate that one.)

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

I have it.

It has to be - Amanda Lynne


Do I get a prize for the best suggestion?

Re: Naming Your Children???

Two engineer colleagues of mine had surnames "Callery" and "Byrnes." They were planning to visit a fired heater consultant once who thought we were having them on when we said Mister Callery and Mister Byrnes were on their way."

Oh Lord, I had something similar happen once! My married surname is "Nickel," and I once worked for a woman whose surname was "Penney." I had to call her once at a conference, and when I said "this is Audrey Nickel calling for Ms. Penney" the receptionist hung up on me!

Re: Naming Your Children???

Ach, console yerself. There might have been messages put out for Mike Hunt and Hugh Jarse:

"Has anyone seen Mike Hunt?"

and

"Is there a Hugh Jarse in the audience?"


Think yersell lucky.

Re: Naming Your Children???

Somewhere in East Africa is a man whose full given name is "Doctor Professor John L. Nickel [African surname that I don’t know how to spell ]." My father in law put this child’s dad through college and he named his first son in FIL’s honor…evidently not realizing that just plain old "John" would have been sufficient!

Re: Naming Your Children???

My freshman year of high school, I knew two girls (unrelated, except maybe their parents were doing the same drugs) whose names were Neon and Mocha. And Neon was in my chemistry class.

My father once met a guy named Dude Head. Since dad thought this was an odd name, he asked if that was a real name, and your man replied, "No, my real name is Richard." He changed that for obvious reasons.

Re: Naming Your Children???

Lest I forget, I spent a summer interning in the Brooklyn DA’s office, and the defendant in one case was a fellow by the name of Understanding A. Bush. No wonder he turned to a life of crime.

Re: Naming Your Children???

In many South African communities, it is extremely common to name children Precious, Grateful, Innocent, Happiness, Patience, Joyful, etc.

An old colleague of mine named her first daughter Joyce, and her second Rejoice!

We also have many Dutch surnames here. I’ve met people with surnames like Kraamwinkel (maternity ward), Gaarkuiken (cooked chick), Haasbroek (rabbit pants) and Niemand (Nobody). In fact, Niemand is a very common surname.

There was a book written by two people named Bolling & Kotze. Is that only funny in Afrikaans?

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

Kat-Leen may be one way of pronouncing Caitlin, but the other day I heard that the proper Gaelic way is "Kashlin"
I like both - has anybody else come across the latter?

In New Zealand many struggle with the easiest of unusual names. My daughter is named Ishoa (phonetically like "dish-oh-a"). It’s Moroccan. She is called a wide range of variations on her name, one of the worst "eye-ee-sha".

Re: Naming Your Children???

To bring this discussion vaguely back to music, my wife (a schoolteacher) used to be bewildered by the frequency of the forename Aaron pronounced and sometimes spelt Arron until we realised the Elvis connection. Hey, I just did a search on Google for arron +presley and got 666 results - spooky! it must be true: he’s still alive and will return amongst us on the Last Day!!!

Re: Naming Your Children???

I’ve always labored under the misapprehension that given names were somehow meant to vaguely empower the child (not the parent), give self esteem, and signify something (positive) to aspire to. How unfashionable does that sound! Oh well, nice to be going against the trend anyway.

It all makes me wonder why this naming fashion happens. I thought disconnected naming was just reserved for tunes. Is it just Western, or part of a cult or something, membership of which is highly desirable for the parents’ career progression perhaps?

Re: Naming Your Children???

I once worked for a website which required that customers fill in an online form to place their order. Of course, some people weren’t too bothered about filling in certain fields, so quite a few order confirmation emails were automatically sent out by the computer system addressed to ‘Dear Not Selected Smith …’

Re: Naming Your Children???

I gave my kids names that are easy to spell, and do not readily corrupt into unpleasant things.

Emma and Steven.

Avoid hard to spell - Siobhan etc.
Avoid readily corruptible - Charlotte the Harlot etc.

And what the hell are middle names about? I was at school with a lad whose name was Christopher George Edgar George Wells. (Hi Goj! how you doing?)

Don’t name a child after its father - or after anything for that matter. Your name is the only personal thing you have all your life, so give a child one that is not embarrassing, and does not replicate any immediate family.

On a lighter note - you could call a girl Penny - after your whistle.

Re: Naming Your Children???

"I’ve always labored under the misapprehension that given names were somehow meant to vaguely empower the child…and signify something…"

Which is why the idea that a name comes from some standard set of "culturally correct", and thus largely meaningless (the average person has no idea what their name means, it’s just an identifier word, like "chair") is a modern Western concept.

In most cultures, in most times, names can be anything "weird" that in some way uniquely identifies the individual, and can even change within the cultural context (one person having many names, each used in a specific context, say time of war vs. time of peace).

Many of the "acceptable" Western names come directly from this older tradition, particularly surnames, like "Smith," "Miller, " or "Kavanaugh," most of which started out as "given" names and then converted later into a family line indentifier.

Notice that Smith and Miller are professional names, and thus could only be applied to a working adult. It is/was also common (depending on time and place) for a child to have a strictly children’s name that they were not saddled with for life, and a new name (or three) when they reached adulthood, and the change of name part of the rite of passage and signifier of that social status.

Most people chose their children’s names these days just because they like the sound of it, even those that come from the standard set.

KFG

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

"Most people chose their children’s names these days just because they like the sound of it, even those that come from the standard set".

That would be a global practice then, or an extrapolation from your most immediate area of cultural influence?

Re: Naming Your Children???

Names also go in and out of fashion - today’s Cruz and Brooklyn are yesterday’s Ridge or Thorn (*boggle*) which were the day before’s Biff and Chet.

As a kid I hated my second name, which was the first name of my dad’s dad AND my mom’s dad (not the same dude, fortunately!)… until I found out that someone with that name fronted a feck’n cool punk band. Then the name Sydney rocked. But then Scream and Alias came along, and it became a girl’s name - so maybe I’ll pass the name down to a daughter of mine someday.

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

"The average person has no idea what their name means, it’s just an identifer word like ‘chair’ "

Wouldn’t be too sure of that.

Names are full of meaning, literal and symbolic, no doubt that’s why there are stories of people changing them because they don’t like the affect.

Re: Naming Your Children???

Name is a part of your identity and is very important. I don’t want to say that if you are named, let’s say, Hubert, you will have a special knack for hunting, which is obviously not true. But your self-perception and perception by others will be also modified by your name, and in some cases may have a heavy influence on your life.

Just consider having a surname like, say, Lee (sorry, Zina!). Now go and name your kid "Bruce", and there you have it - he will spend his whole life answering to jests about his kung-fu affinities. This may also affect his chances to get a job (good morning, let me introduce Mr. Bruce Lee, our new Technical Director, haw haw haw). If he’s relaxed about it, then okay. If he’s not though, woe to him.

Of course if it’s a girl, you might call her Zina, and everything will be in order 🙂

Re: Naming Your Children???

I think I agree with you, Janek, although I must say that your view may well attract the "standard set" label, at least in some parts of the world.

Re: Naming Your Children???

"Names are full of meaning, literal and symbolic…"

Certainly, but for most people that comes with their experience, they have little or no knowledge of the linguistic meaning of their name. The symbolism they attach to their name is an individual one, say, "It were grandad’s name", that might grow over time and include, as Janek points out, some purely arbitrary "pop" influnces, some of which will happen in the the future, so even if your given name was "Tim" in 1950 in 2000 you may well find yourself the butt of Monty Python jokes, so there’s no such thing as as safe name.

Of course there are always names like "Rose" or "June", which would seem to have obvious meaning, but what *is* the name of the rose?

You can dig pretty deep if you want to, but I really don’t think most people do. We’re trad heads here, these things have more meaning to us than to the general populace. Find a "Tim" at random in the phone book. Call him up. Ask him what "Tim" means.

I’d bet he doesn’t even know that it’s Greek, let alone what it means. And his parents probably didn’t either. It was probably just Grandad’s name or something. Certainly "grandad" has some symbolic meaning to that individual, but it’s not innate in the name and nobody else would have a clue.

I myself had no idea what my name meant until I was in my 20s. It was just my name. Me. No other symbolism attached to it all. I had to look it up. My mom didn’t know either.

I wrote a tune for someone awhile ago. The name of the tune (and the dedication as well) were a play on the naming conventions of tunes and the linguistic meaning of her name. I had to explain it to her. She had no idea what her name meant other than it was "hers."

KFG

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

"I myself had no idea what my name meant until I was in my 20s. It was just my name. Me. No other symbolism attached to it at all. I had to look it up. My mom didn’t know either."

But that is your experience, KFG. Maybe that is the minority experience.

Didn’t you ever wonder what your name meant, and why you were called it, way before your 20s??

And so, what does your name mean to you now?

Re: Naming Your Children???

"But that is your experience KFG. Maybe that is the minority experience."

Absolutely, and I’m quite aware of that, but it is an experience that includes being informed by being interested in and paying attention to the experience. Making an actual "study" of it, cross culturally. In Japan, for instance, you find something akin to the old naming conventions. People are named in Japanese, not Greek or Saxon, and the names have obvious literal meaning (Honda means "The first rice paddy"), and yet I have been assured by many Japanese that they view their own names simply as proper nouns, just as we do, without any concious regard to the literal meaning. Just a sound uttered when they are being refered to. Names are learned and internalized long before people have any clue about language and meaning, per se. Mother, Father and <Your Name Here> were the first words you learned, and you learned them strictly as proper nouns. Any other sense of "meaning" that you have attached to them personally came later. Much later as these things go.

In places where more traditional naming conventions are still adhered to names have actual, obvious meaning that attaches to the indvidual that everyone can understand to one degree or another.

Say, "Dances with Wolves," or "First Born Son." In the old Charlie Chan movies "Number One Son" is the actual translation from Chinese into English of the name, and not just some epithet. To Charile such a translation of the name would seem natural, because the name is the meaning, not the sound as it is with us here today. It’s descriptive, not a proper noun,so his son’s name would actually "change" with every change of language. I believe this too supports my premise. Few modern Westerners would change their names just because they were visiting some other country (indeed, they often get offended by such, even if it’s just a conversion into the local dialect)), because they think of their names as proper nouns, not meanings. The very *specific* sounding is what’s important to them, not the meaning, of which they may well be completely unaware.

I think you’ll find further evidence of my point of view directly in the thread subject. People choose "whacky" names for their kids these days just exactly because they no longer attach much, if any, symbolic meaning to them, other than, say, "I really like my whistle, and the name sounds kewl."

There’s no telling whether I’m right or wrong, of course, without doing some sort of formal study, but that is, of course, the way I’d bet on the outcome of such a study, after having given the matter considerable thought over the years.

"Didn’t you ever wonder what your name meant, and why you were called it, way before your 20s??"

No, not the slightest. The idea that it even had a linguistic meaning never even occured to me, and I’m the extremely inquisitive sort with a love of language who reads dictionaries and etymologies in multiple languages like they were novels. I knew *why* I was called that since about the age of eight though, but only because my mom mentioned that If I’d been a girl she would have named me "Beverly," so that led to telling me why I was named Kevin.

Being born male she had no idea what to call me and my dad started to just run off a list of names. When he got to "How about Kevin?" She said, "Oh, that sounds nice, and it’s kind of exotic too."

She’d never heard it before. It had no meaning to her. She was a Russian Jew from New Bedford/Long Island. Welcome to the great American melting pot of NYC.

"And so, what does your name mean to you now?"

It’s just my name. A proper noun, like chair. Chosen at random because some name was necessary to record on the birth certificate. A way for people to identify me to each other when they talk about me behind my back . I’m just as comfortable with "The guy with the pipe and the hat," which is a better name in some contexts.

I’m not too big on sympathetic magic.

I am mildly intrigued by the fact that it turned out to be fitting though (except for the "handsome" part, of course), but that’s just coincidence, and it leads to some joshing on the part of the drummer who follows me around, name of Kavanaugh.

KFG

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

Anyone named their kid Boran?
Wonder why not?

Re: Naming Your Children???

"Mother … were the first words you learned, and you learned them strictly as proper nouns. Any other sense of "meaning" that you have attached to them personally came later."

You’re going to "nail" me on this one, aren’t you? 🙂

KFG

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

I named my daughter ‘Diana’ after someone famous by the same name…had to convince my husband that it was just because it sounded good with our last name. Now my daughter will tell you "I was named after a princess who died in a car crash because she wasn’t wearing her selt belt." At least my daughter will always wear hers now! But my guidelines were that it had to be non-sexually ambiguous, not too long, not rhyme with our last name (something I have to live with and people think it is very funny!), sound good for a kid as well as an adult, etc., etc.

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

Congratulations to the brave new girl that is going to be called "Alba." Compared to everything in these 90 posts, that doesn’t sound so bad. The father can be a typical Dad and tell her that he named his whistle after her.

I suppose there is no risk of Dad confusing his whistle with his daughter. However, I can remember doing "Old McDonald Had a Farm" on a kiddie belly played something like a Didjeridoo (vibrating lips and belly). That’s difficult when you are both giggling. Hey that would be a great name, and "Didj" for a nickname. You could turn it into a question when she comes to show you what she just did: "What Didjeridoo?" 😉

Re: Naming Your Children???

Well, Janek dear, would that be *in* order, or *on* order?

I knew two girls, inseparable friends — Rose Redd and Candace Kane. Who knew what their parents were thinking?

Re: Naming Your Children???

"Kat-Leen may be one way of pronouncing Caitlin, but the other day I heard that the proper Gaelic way is "Kashlin"
I like both - has anybody else come across the latter?"

The latter wouldn’t be correct. You will sometimes hear "KAWTCH-leen," (emphasizing the slender "T") and KAWT-leen but "kashlin" doesn’t work with the Irish Gaelic phonics at all. I’m willing to bet whoever told you that isn’t an Irish speaker.

Re: Naming Your Children???

“You’re going to nail me on this one too, aren’t you” (KFG).

No. You think there’s a reason to?

“Welcome to the great American melting pot of NYC.” (KFG)

Welcome to the recent American melting pot of NYC, maybe? America doesn’t have a monopoly on melting pots now, does it?

And names? Well, meaningful, symbolic names, that sound good too, that give children an insight into the minds of their parents and perhaps themselves, a sense of where and who they came from, and which they are free to change if they wish, sound just fine to me. Names that are unshackled by the tyranny of the dictates of compulsory postmodern deconstructionism.

Like this sort of name:

“Ríonach - (REE-uh-nak) From the Old Irish female name Rígnach, meaning ‘queenly’. The legendary ancestress of the O’Neill, MacLoughlin, O’Donnell, O’Gallagher, and O’Gormley families was the Queen Ríonach. Alternate spelling: Riona. In legend Rionach was the wife of "Niall of the Nine Hostages" and as such is the maternal ancestor of many of the great Irish family dynasties.”

Proud, meaningful, connected, supportive, inclusive, reassuring, but hey, legendary anyway. Just magic!

Ceol Cairdeas – “You could turn it into a question…”
Like it. A question is worth a thousand words – and it leaves more time for tunes!

(BTW, KFG, could you tell us whether that should be POSTmodern or postMODERN?)

Re: Naming Your Children???

"You think there’s a reason to?"

Yes.

"Proud, meaningful, connected, supportive, inclusive, reassuring, but hey, legendary anyway. Just magic!"

I couldn’t agree more.

"BTW, KFG, could you tell us whether that should be POSTmodern or postMODERN?"

I’m at a loss. Could you elucidate?

KFG

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

"America doesn’t have a monopoly on melting pots now, does it? "

Oh, and of course not, just a complete monopoly of the one my mother bore me in and I must leave it to others to speak for their own.

KFG

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

post mortem, hopefully.

Don’t you ever sleep?

Oh Gawd, sorry I asked.

Expecting a tsunami of verbal diahorreah to hit this post …….


Run for cover!!!

Re: Naming Your Children???

MM — post of Emma’s Slip is now in the tune archive, courtesy of Shannon Heaton. I note there’s another jig in there with the name of "Emma’s" as well! Let me know if you want a pdf of the typeset music and I’ll send it if you do.

Re: Naming Your Children???

"I’m at a loss." (KFG)

Now I just can’t believe that!

Re: Naming Your Children???

I think he’s at a loss for the effect. ;)

Re: Naming Your Children???

Yeah, but nobody’s perfect, Zina. 😉, and hey you’re all conservative at heart over there, we know that!

Re: Naming Your Children???

"Now I just can’t believe that!"

I recognize and can pronounce all the words, with at least some vague idea of the meaning of each (with the help of Wikipedia), and it seems perfectly proper grammatically, although the typography is a bit strange, but honestly, I can’t answer the question because I haven’t a clue as to what it means as a whole.

I induce some sort of implication that I adhere to postmodern philosophy (hence the trip to Wikipedia, to find out what that might actually be. I still don’t know. I’m pretty sure they don’t either, but that’s philosophers for you. I do my best not to pay any attention to them), but that’s really all I can make of it.

KFG

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

"I induce some sort of implication that I adhere to postmodern philosophy…"

Maybe you are doing the deducing, and others are doing the inducing.

I think you’d find it pretty interesting, KFG, to tell you the truth. French origins, gone a bit global, certainly up here in the warm half of the world! (The balmy year-round weather here makes everyone go troppo and break all the rules, I’d say.)

If you want to see the height of intellectual terrorism though, postmodernism might be a bit passe, you’d have to go for ‘post postmodernism’ to be really avant garde these days.

Re: Naming Your Children???

Bite your tongue, Duijera! *smirk*

Re: Naming Your Children???

Bite my tongue and play didj at the same time? Not a good look, Zina.

Re: Naming Your Children???

Hmm. Look at the time!

"All the English must be taking their zeds,
and the Yanks are getting tardy,
Here? We’re not going near our beds,
for sure, it’s time to PARTY!!!!"

Tunes, tunes, tunes!!!!

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Re: Naming Your Children???

"I think you’d find it pretty interesting, KFG, to tell you the truth."

Is it really worth deciphering their language? The postmodern dictionary I just looked at sent cold shivers down my spine and their basic point of view, such as I currently understand it, elicits sympathies and makes my skin crawl at the same time. I tried to read de Chardin once upon a time and my eyes just glazed over, this looks more of the same from the opposite side of the coin. I think I’ll stick with physics, Thoreau and Zen, they’re less opaque.

I like my radicalism old fashioned.

I don’t suppose there’s a Classic Comics version?

KFG

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

Are you going to give up that easily, KFG?! That’s disappointing now. You have a chance for a life-changing experience here -and what do you do?!

Now - I REALLY have to go and party.

Cheers.

Re: Naming Your Children???

My big sis is Caitlín - and it is pronounced Catchleen.

The wierdest name I ever came across is that of SC Jebb who owns a plumbing supplies company in Belfast. The SC is for Spendlove Chapelizod - so called because his parents conceived him on their honeymoon in Chapelizod in Dublin where they ‘spent love’ !! The Beckhams are merely following this mad tradition.

I also am hacked off with people who name their kids with irish names and they cant pronounce it. An excellent example of this is the name Sorcha - inevitably mispronounced sorsha instead of the ch sound as in loch.

A Portuguese friend of mine calld Jorge was horrified when I told him the irish of this was Seoirse [shorsha] as apprently this is the portuguese word for clitoris or some similar part of the female anatomy!!

Oh and Yehudi is actually one of the McMenamins 🙂

Other famous Irish names

Irishman bouncing off walls = Rick O’Shea
Irishman stealing one’s drink = Nic McGuinness
Irishman hanging from ceiling = Sean DeLeer
Irish prostitute = Phil McCracken
Irish funeral director = Pól Béara
Irishman in a bog = Pete
Irishman lying in front of the fire = Matt
Scotsman with shovel in his head = Doug
Scotsman without shovel in head = Douglas
😉

Re: Naming Your Children???

And as our mate John would say to that, Breandan,………. gather my yoghurts, to which you would reply……….iguana in a ditch!!!

Maria
xxxx

Re: Naming Your Children???

Assuming you are the right Maria (R) Might see you tonight - John Boy has taken pity on me as I haven’t had a tune in a couple of weeks.

Re: Naming Your Children???

It’s always a worry that you might have named your child with th Portuguese word for clitoris.
Would you believe that we had a lad at school called Albert Ross?

Re: Naming Your Children???

Nice one Brendy have`nt seen you in a while and I`ve been playing some new tunes recently, Beibhin my mate is another great flute player, strong and tasteful just like you.
Anyway did John tell you about the absolute stomper of a night we had on Sunday? Colm Regan, Jim Rainey, Desi Adams, a girl called Meabhdh [I think ] playing banjo, Darragh Murphy Johnboy and myself, played well into the early hours of Monday morning. Best tunes I`ve had in ages, which means tonights should be the icing on the cake, especially if you`re going to show.

Re: Naming Your Children???

Ottery - just picking myself off the floor - ALBERT ROSS :D

Re: Naming Your Children???

🙂

Re: Naming Your Children???

A friend of mine in South London used to teach a boy called Denmark Hill, and his brother, Tulse. Hoo hoo!

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

my south london daughters are ciara(8) and alana(5) _both irish names, the eldest (so we’re informed) is also the name of a scottish saint, and alana is named after the pet name (given by her granddad) to mandy murrey, a great london-irish concertina player, now living in brighton

Re: Naming Your Children???

No, actually, Alba means ‘Dawn’ in Latin/Italian/Spanish, Alba whistles are called so because Scotland is Alba?? I never heard that, nice one.

Re: Naming Your Children???

Ottery I don’t believe that for one minute! 🙂

If that’s so then we had Teresa Green and Ben Dover at our school!

And as for the bloke who became a lion tame, Claude Bottom, I can’t remember the last time I saw him.

Re: Naming Your Children???

Oops! Should be tamer not tame. Schoolboy error!

Re: Naming Your Children???

My father tells of a family friend, a Mr Threadgold in North London about 70 years ago, who had a son and named him Harold. When people abbreviated this to Harry, he asked them not to, but they persisted.

He then had another son, whom he named Harry.

Re: Naming Your Children???

Of course, as we all know, Alba in Choctaw means vegetation. Hence the state of Alabama means ‘gatherer of vegetation’. It also has a secondary latin meaning of sunrise, can mean white, white clothing - in fact just about anything you want it to mean 🙂

Re: Naming Your Children???

OK, stranger still, there was another lad at school (Albanian or something I think) called Gabriel Gabriel (I don’t know if he had a middle name!).
I’m not making this up - his parents must have had a very limited vocabulary, or imagination.

Re: Naming Your Children???

My name is David Davies.

My Father’s name was David Davies… …

… …and so on back through history to about the ninth century, according to fairly reliable records.

And I am the only one recorded as being born legitimate.

So even if I’m not one, I come from a very long line of bastards.

Re: Naming Your Children???

If I ever have a female daughter I’m going to name her after US downhill ski great Pekabo Street (pronounced Peekaboo). That’s a childish name born of hippy heritage as well and yet it translates well into adulthood. Regardless, her name has come to symbolize everything I would want my daughter to become.

On a light note, I once hear of a guy named Lee Grant which isn’t so bad until you find out his last name is General!

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

Sounds Kinky, Dave.

Two Turks I have known of:
Erkin Gerkin (spelling wrong, sound right) and Ufuk Er. (spelling right. But it’s more like Oofook Air in pronunciation. Unlike those Francophone Air Gabon stewardesses who welcome you aboard their F*ck-Air 100s.)

I’m not sure if others get the same childish delight we anglophones, particularly of the UK/Irish/Australasian variety, get from such homophonic tomfoolery.

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

Bren, we once spent an evening of sophomoric yet still hilarious jocularity driving to and from Feakle. (I suppose being a bit drunk helped, at least in finding the horrendous jokes funny.) But the funniest bit was when we returned to the States and were shamefacedly describing the trip to Irish friends, who laughed right along with us: about six months later, we were laughing about it again with the same Irish friends, and suddenly the light dawned on them what the puns were all about.

I guess they were so used to the name "Feakle" that they never really heard it. I remember the husband expressed some shock because he said that normally it’s the kind of thing an Irishman would jump right on top of.

Re: Naming Your Children???

Conan, that’s brilliant!

Re: Naming Your Children???

whale oil beef ….

Re: Naming Your Children???

Cod Ham Cheese n’ Rice!

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

poor awl’ Tom Morrow 🙂 actually I think that’s genius …

Posted by .

Re: Naming Your Children???

Alba whistles made in Scotland !
Of course LoL
And yes it makes a great name
spose ifin it were a boy it could be named Scott Alba