Guitar Flatpicked Tunes

I was wondering if anyone has any comments about likes and dislikes in this regard. More particularily I am looking for recordings to listen to, of this minority art.
I have some recordings of Artie McGlynn, Gaughan, and Dennis Cahill - not all together!
I found two tracks by Cahill on a Niamh Parsons CD.
I would also welcome suggested tunes that people have found good/easy to adapt to the guitar and in what tuning.
I have found that you need to have these tunes off pretty well (solo std) because if anyone ever asks you to play they will probably not join in, knowing that the acoustic guitar will easily get drowned out. If they do join in they probably didn’t really want to hear the guitar anyway which is just fine. The exception is the Mandolin which combines very nicely,and the flute to a lesser extent.
Pick it up and run.

I wasn’t going to answer this topic Donough when I saw it was you. I think you already know about most of the pickers I’ve heard of.

But for the benefit of anyone who doesn’t already know, Richard Thompson’s “Strict Tempo” CD has fingerstyle and single string picking on acoustic and electric guitar. There’s also his version of 4-part hornpipe“Flee as a Bird” in drop D which is available only on compilations. That’s a classic if you haven’t already heard it. (I can show you the Slow version 🙂 )I don’t think R. Thompson uses a pick necessarily, maybe index fingernail or thumbpick, but to the listener you can’t really tell.

A namesake, Bluegrass picker Eric Thompson http://www.bluegrassintentions.com/eric.htm#sounds has a pretty sound background in Irish music and has released tracks of solo tune picking. He has also been known to use a “pseudo-banjo” tuning of EADDAE for melody playing.

Some tunes which seem to fall easily on the guitar:
City of Savannah
Boys of Bluehill
Chicago Reel
Chief O’Neill’s
Little Beggarman/Auld Rigadoo (on bass strings in A)
Capo on 2nd fret seems to work for some tunes - playing in G for A and C for D.

OK, said enough, next I’ll be teaching granny to suck eggs!

I think guitar playing the tunes is wicked.
Arty plays tunes on Frankie Gavin Irlande album, I think Paul Brady was the first to record guitar playing the tunes. Other obvious examples (I’m sure you know all these yourself
anyway) would be Tony McManus and Jim Murray (on the Begley album).
It’s something I haven’t really got into myself, I got a mandolin recently to learn the tunes, but as I’m doing that finding myself getting more interested in the tunes on the guitar.
I agree that’s it’s not ideal for sessions (big ones anyway).

Oh Paul De Grae has an album of flatpicked tunes (that goes with an instructional book)

Thanks all for the input. I am still hoping for a nice broad discussion here as well as leads to some obscure (to me) recordings. I like Paul Brady’s Fred Finn Reel and Jim’s Jigs that he does with Sharon Shannon (Capo at ?VII).
Never heard Frankie Gavin’s Irlande album - will check out that. I have Paul DeGrae’s book, but he uses a funny tuning; What’s the CD like that goes with the book?

Very good - it’s more of an album than a instructional CD.
Then the book explains what he’s doing.
The tuning is DADEAE I think.
John Doyle has a couple of flatpicked tunes on his first album.
(and I presume on his second).

I like the flat picked tunes John Doyle does on the Solas albums but haven’t heard his solo album(s).

You have to listen to Chris Newman, he is the man when it comes to flatpicking Irish tunes - go to www.oldbridgemusic.com. Fretwork or The Living Wood would be good start offs.

He plays most of his stuff in standard or Drop D - I am working my way though the Comhaltas Fionn Seisiun books.

Guitar works well for one or two other instruments but more than that and its lost (we’ll leave accordians and banjos out of the mix).

I keep hearing about Chris Newman, I really better go listen him !!

Newman’s is fantastic all round but if you want your socks knocked off by flat picking, Seamus Egan’s the man.

You’re probably already familiar with these,but I find piping tunes fit really well with DADGAD.D mixylodian tunes especially -eg
Jenny’s Welcome to Charlie
Floating Crowbar
Spike Island Lasses
Rakish Paddy etc

I try and use open strings as little as possible and stretch out your little finger-seems to work for DADGAD anyway.
Also major tunes on DADGAD
Flags of Dublin
Miss Monaghan
Hand Me Down the Tackle

most of these have been done by ArtyMcG at some stage but you can mess around with your own versions of these as well

“Newman’s is fantastic all round but if you want your socks knocked off by flat picking, Seamus Egan’s the man.”

On guitar? I’ve heard hom on banjo and mandolin, but I didn’t know he did guitar.

hom = him

Senility strikes again.

I hadn’t heard of Chris Newman. Are there any samples online?

Seamus Egan flat picks on both a nylon string guitar and sometimes an electric--I kind of like the sound of the nylon string, not so much the electric (goes past the boundaries of what I like).
I DEFINITELY recomment John Doyle’s new album “Wayward Son” for those who want to hear some good picking in particular and an overall good record in general.
I would also recommend Danu, especially their latest album. Donal Clancy does some nice stuff, and there is nice interplay of the guitar with the bouzouki player. I just saw them last night in concert and they were awesome!
For the first time in my life, during the last few months I have been learning to flatpick my guitar instead of just playing chords, or fingerpicking. It is challenging to say the least--I am the proverbial old dog I guess.

Me too Al (well I feel old)

Let us know how you get on.

as a newbie to this (flatpicker coming from bluegrass) I have a hard time with the ornamentation. There’s a Sue Thompson lesson on Irish ornamentation for flatpick guitar on the acoustic guitar website:
http://www.acousticguitar.com/
Sounds to me like Sue’s husband Eric is the one playing/talking on the audio (well, it’s definitely not Sue talking!), which for me was extremely helpful. Though I read music I haven’t been able interpret the grace notes, rolls, etc I find in the music.

Some of the online stuff is free but for this lesson you have to sign on, which means you have to be a subscriber (I think).

I like the mag, though its recent redesign leaves it crowded looking (the web site too!) and the reduced font size, while perhaps enabling more content, makes it hard for people my age to read….

I use Drop D for flatpicking because it allows better access to the high B which crops of a lot in tunes. I still like DADGAD for rhythm work, but must admit I don’t really use it in sessions for a couple reasons. I mostly play fiddle but occasionally I’ll like the way a tune works on guitar. Here are some tunes I pick; most are pretty conventional tunes btw:

Jigs, Slides, Slip Jigs: Up Sligo, Munster Buttermilk, Connaughtman’s Rambles, Out on the Ocean, Merrily Kissed the Quaker, Give Us a Drink of Water

Hornpipes and Strathspeys: Golden Eagle, Rights of Man, Fisher’s, Crossing the Minch, Laird of Drumblair

Reels: Sailor’s Bonnet, Brenda Stubbert’s, Maid Behind the Bar, Navvy on the Line, Speed the Plough (the D version from Paul Brady), St. Anne’s, Whiskey Before Breakfast, Wind that Shakes the Barley, McMahon’s, St. Kilda Wedding (DADGAD), Toss the Feathers

As for volume, you may want to try a mahogany backed guitar. Even though guitars are generally quite in a session context, I believe that mahogany guitars cut through the mix better than rosewood. I have a Blueridge BR240 and it cuts through quite well, but then again I come from a strong bluegrass background and know how to drive my guitar’s volume. I also use either a faux-tortoise pick or a Wegen TR-140 which I think improve both tone and volume without distorting the sound.

quite=quiet

Good point on mahogany guitars. A good one can indeed cut through better than most rosewood models. I briefly had a BR240 and loved everything about it except the narrow, thin neck. I traded my Martin for two Blueridges and had to trade back after a couple of months because of the neck. If you’re comfortable with the Blueridge neck, there’s not a better guitar for twice the price. Seriously.

I use DADGAD to flatpick The Kilmoulis Jig and a reel I learned off a Gerald Trimble record. Can’t think of the name. I’m sure I’ll learn more in DADGAD. In standard, let’s see…

Crucaharan Cross
Johnny Leary’s Polka
Johnny Leary’s Polka
Floating Crowbar
Red Haired Boy
Staten Island Hornpipe
Whisky (or Whiskey) Before Breakfast
Mac’s Fancy
The Gold Rush (okay, that’s bluegrass)
more that I can’t remember

I found the Chris Newman samples. Top-notch playing! Neither of the two samples were ITM, though.

Chris Newman does the guitar work on Brendan Power’s, “New Irish Harmonica” record. Although, Brendan is the real star of the album, Chris does double him on some of the melodies.

tunes: being a bluegrasser there’s the Whiskey Prior to Breakfast, Red-Haired Boy, St. Anne’s Reel, Miss McLeod’s, Temperance Reel, Flowers of Edinburgh. Etc.

in my new hobby I’ve been tackling:
The Wise Maid (hard); Humours of Lissadell (not too hard once properly arranged but I don’t have the right ornaments yet), Maid Behind the Bar, Blarney Pilgrim (my first jig!!!), The New Policeman, Merrily Kiss the Quaker, Far From Home (easy), Swinging on the Gate, New Century Hornpipe (is that Irish?), Jer the Rigger, Musical Priest, Star of Munster, Bonaparte Crossing the Rhine, Caribou Reel, Greenfields of America.

Yikes, that’s lots of tunes for an oldster such as myself. Oh, I do these in standard tuning. I once heard Dennis Cahill say he found it easier to make his fingers find the notes than to make his brain learn new tunings.

Zan McLeod does a very nice set of flatpicked tunes in DADGAD on the Ring Session CD with James Kelly, incl Sailing into Walpole’s Marsh/The Game of Love/The Teetotaller. He also does a very nice version of The Wise Maid on the CD.

Flynn Cohen, who often plays with John Whelan, also has a nice CD of flatpicked tunes that are mostly Irish.

Jeff W.

I’m with Dennis C on that. My fingers don’t need so much brain intervention in standard tuning. Plus, retuning is soooo not fun.

to capo or not to capo?

I’m (finally) learning to play in open positions rather than use a capo. BUT some tunes (Musical Priest is one--very few open strings to use for position changing) seem to almost demand them. On the other hand I’d much rather play the backing for M. Priest open rather than capoed.

Then there’s stuff like Daley’s Reel (Bb)….hard with a capo, unimaginable without. Though I admit I haven’t really tackled it (the backing wouldn’t sound so hot though).

Anyone else use them? I haven’t really played melody in sessions yet but can imagine switching tunes might be hard if using a capo. On the other hand, maybe dropping out for a section is good for dynamics?

I first learned Wise Maid w/capo then realized it was so much better without. Still took me forever to play it fluidly.

Maybe some of the DADGAD players could chime in here a bit: My initial experience with this tuning for both melody and backing tells me that it really only works for D and D minor/dorian tunes. Then for G tunes, you capo up to the 5th fret, and play as if you’re in the open position? What about E dorian and A dorian tunes? Do you capo up to 2nd fret and 7th fret respectively? Also, what do you guys do when there are key changes in a set of tunes like Tarbolton in E dorian, Longford Collector in G, the Sailor’s Bonnet in D? My first guess would be capo 2, capo 5, then no capo…? But somehow, I think shifting the capo around is impractical.

The key of G (DADGAD) is not bad without capo.

I love capos (capoes? Paging Dan Quayle…). They let you have several instruments in one. Some people are constitutionally opposed to them, but I don’t understand that at all.

I say if the capo helps you play something and it sounds good, that’s all the justification you need. But if you find yourself capoing all over the neck just to keep playing in the same fingering, that’s ultimately going to be limiting to your expressive range and your learning, not to mention eventually starting to sound monotonous.

Any body tried an Arch-top in sessions, semms to me it would cut better.

Bob himself - A friend from Nashville sez that if you leave a capo on yr dashboard, they;ll let you park in the Handicap Zone. 😉 Just thought I’d share that with you.

They *would* say that in Nashville, them Nashville cats. I freely admit to using crutches to help me play.

I beg to differ… in Nashville, lots of folk use capos. Least-wise, those of the bluegrass persuasion. It’s not crutch but a way of getting a certain sound. You simply can’t get the right sound trying to play a “G run” (Flatt run) in B without a capo.

JD IS THE MAN

I’m going to see John tomorrow….BUT HIS NEW CD

Sean Earnest
Camp Hill, PA

I only just got back to this thread that I started yesterday and thanks to everyone for their contributions.
I found Chris Newman amazing in concert but I did not find that he had a very good feel for the music - in other words it didn’t quite come out sounding Irish enough for my liking. In the same concert Artie McGlynn flatpicked a set of tunes and whilst less flashy technically, it sounded just right to me.
I’m off to practice now-
Bren - if you’re out there I am still trying to organise a session for tomorrow.

Donough,

YOu should also try to put your hands on Dave MacIsaac’s CDs, “Nimble Fingers” and “From the Archives”.

He’s been backing up Cape Breton fiddler’s for years, and is a good filldle player himself, but he’s best know for his flatpicked guitar playing. The tunes are more from the Scottish tradition than they are the Irish,, but you’ll get a lot of useful ideas from his playing. He also flatpick sa mean reel on an electric if you don’t mind some stretching of the tradition.

Jeff W.

See what happens when you don‘’t have your old man reading glasses on and don’t proofread your posts! 🙂

Jeff

Jeez, I wish I had the time and drive to learn to pick some tunes on the guitar. As I scrape on the fiddle already, I’m not sure if I’d get confused if I tried to play the same tunes on guitar as I play on the fiddle - a question I suspect a lot of people ask themselves.

I must say that Dave MacIsaac is a mean picker and a half - he’ll knock a tune out of anything he’s got in his hands! (No! I didn’t mean that - you lot have got filthy minds!)

Does anyone use a resonator (Dobro) guitar for more volume in Flatpicking tunes? I use a resonator mandolin for that purpose. Audible next to accordions (ians, eons).

Oldstrings

“Does anyone use a resonator (Dobro) guitar for more volume in Flatpicking tunes?”

I think Charlie Piggot and Alec Finn did some of that on at least one De Dannan album. Sounded pretty cool.

I had a ’50’s Epiphone archtop guitar that I tried playing in sessions, and it got completely lost, which surprised us all.
Since it was pretty much made for orchestral rhythm, we expected that it would do fine. I’ve heard a couple of others that did better than mine (in better players’ hands! <G>), but they didn’t project as well when there was any cross-picking or melodic playing going on…

There’s a friend of Ged Foley’s who plays a dobro/reso guitar, and he has come to some festivals (Cincinnati, St. Louis) and played some slidey stuff on the Irish tunes, but in sessions when he tried to flatpick the tunes, that one got lost, too.

I do think that flatpicking ITM tunes on a reso guitar as a solo or maybe in an ensemble up to a trio (a la Alec Finn on that wonderfu duet recording -names of which, player and album, slip my mind just now) would be an interesting sound…

I love to listen to folks who can flatpick ITM, but I haven’t got the ability to do it… so far… <G>

Kudos to Zan McLeod and Chris Newman, tho, great stuff!!

stv

http://cdbaby.com/Culchies

^That’ll^ be “Polbain to Oranmore” by Kevin MacLeod and Alec Finn ?

I was so wrong. Worked on Musical Priest sans capo yesterday. Works great. What was I thinking?

Lots of these tunes, seems at some point you have to jump up the neck to get the high B note. Which then requires (at least for me) arranging the other notes around that closed position. Find that open string to make the jump is the trick. Both up and down….

In my admittedly limited experience with archtop guitars, they had a crisp punchy sound, but not very good projection.

Finn and Piggot played steel guitars on Mac’s Fancy and The Mist Covered Mountain on the album “The Mist Covered Mountain”. By “steel guitar” I assume they meant something like a National steel, not a lap steel.

Referring back to this topic I just thought I would add mention of the new album “Masters of the Irish Guitar”. Lots of great flatpicking and more besides though there are a couple of tracks that don’t feel like they belong there - no names mentioned.