How to know if a tune is a waltz or a mazurka or a three-two?

How to know if a tune is a waltz or a mazurka or a three-two?

I’m a beginner in this… and I was going to submit Mike Hobin’s but I don’t know if it’s a waltz… or a mazurka… or even a three-two…
How to know that in all the tunes in general?

(Mike Hobin’s is the first tune in Lúnasa’s album Sé)

Re: How to know if a tune is a waltz or a mazurka or a three-two?

Ask any bodhran player you know to help in the enlightenment.

Re: How to know if a tune is a waltz or a mazurka or a three-two?

Good idea, but I don’t know anyone.

Re: How to know if a tune is a waltz or a mazurka or a three-two?

Try to dance to the tune-you’ll soon know.

Re: How to know if a tune is a waltz or a mazurka or a three-two?

Good idea too, but I can’t dance.

Could anyone listen to the first tune (Mike Hobin’s) in the last Lúnasa’s album Sé and tell me if it’s a mazurka or what it is etc so that I can submit it here? Thanks.

Re: How to know if a tune is a waltz or a mazurka or a three-two?

Waltz - emphasis on the first beat with a lighter and slightly delayed second and third beat.

Mazurka - "Mazurs, obereks, and other dances from this group are in triple meter and contain the mazurka rhythms consisting of a pattern of two sixteenths followed by two eighth-notes (in a three-eighths meter), i.e. two short and two long notes…In the music, strong accents are irregularly placed on the second or third beat of the measure." For more see
http://www.fiu.edu/~kneskij/mazurka/index.htm
and scroll down to "Music".

Three-Two - don’t really know - ?? sorry, can someone else fill in here?

Re: How to know if a tune is a waltz or a mazurka or a three-two?

If you are familiar with the Scottish song "Cam Ye Ower Frae France" that’s a three two.

Re: How to know if a tune is a waltz or a mazurka or a three-two?

It depends to a certain extent on how it’s played - something you can’t tell from the sheet music.

If you count ‘1-2-3’ to a *waltz*, you are unlikely to find more than two notes to each beat. As Stewart says above, the first beat has a strong accent. The slightly delayed second beat is, I believe, a feature of a true Viennese waltz, but waltzes are often played with the beats evenly spaced.

The above definiton of the *mazurka* is probably accurate with regard to the true mazurka, as played in the Mazur region of Poland. However, this does not necessarily correspond to those tunes in the Irish (Donegal) tradition known as mazurkas. Like a waltz, these tend to have one or two notes to each beat, although triplets are sometimes found. 1/8+3/8 note groupings (‘Scotch snaps’) are also not uncommon. The whole tune may be played with a ‘swung’ or ‘dotted’ feel. There are often strong accents on both the 1st and 2nd beats, which are inherent in the melodic structure. They are usually made up of roughly bar-long phrases (whereas a waltz may containg extended phrases spanning 2 or 4 bars).

Three-two is not strictly a type of tune, but just a time signature. The tunes reffered to here as ‘three-twos’ are mostly of English origin and what were once called ‘hornpipes’ (the modern definition of ‘hornpipe’ having largely superseded the old one). The triple time of these tunes is not always immediately obvious, since each beat may divided up into 4 notes (occasionally even more) and the pace is necessarily much slower than that of a waltz or mazurka. Typically, these tunes are made up of bar-long phrases. The is not a great deal of differentiation between the accenting of the main beats, although the 3/2 time is marked by a slight emphasis on the 1st beat. But the first note of each beat is emphasised somewhat - a bit like a reel with an extra 1/2-note beat in each bar.

I hope you are suitably confused.

Re: How to know if a tune is a waltz or a mazurka or a three-two?

3/2 Hornpipes (usually written in 3/4 in the NSP tradition) often have a 1,2,3,4, 1,2 or 1,2, 1,2,3,4 split as for the first example "1-You 2-shall 3-have 4-a 1-Fish 2-ie"

PP

Re: How to know if a tune is a waltz or a mazurka or a three-two?

The difference between a waltz and a mazurka can be as simple as how you play it. Reels can become highlands, and flings become strathspeys. Hornpipes can become reels. There are some things that cannot be reduced to paper.

Re: How to know if a tune is a waltz or a mazurka or a three-two?

Thank you all. Now I’m ready to kill myself. Just kidding. How difficult all this is, isn’t it? but I won’t give up.

Re: How to know if a tune is a waltz or a mazurka or a three-two?

There are waltzes, mazurkas and three twos on this site.Just listen to the sound files.