Big John McNeil reel

By Peter Milne

Also known as Big John MacNeil, Big John McNeal, Big John McNeil’s, Big John McNeill, Big John Mcneill’s, Duelling Violins, Grant’s, John MacNeil, John MacNeil’s, John MacNeill, John Macneils, John McNeil, Highland Dancer, John McNeill’s, John Mcneils, Lord Ramsey, Lord Ramsey’s.

There are 86 recordings of this tune.

This tune has been recorded together with

Big John McNeil appears in 1 other tune collection.

Big John McNeil has been added to 53 tune sets.

Big John McNeil has been added to 485 tunebooks.

Download ABC

Ten settings

1
X: 1
T: Big John McNeil
R: reel
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: Amaj
A2|:A,2 CE FECE|AECE FECE|A,2 CE FECE|FAGF EDCB,|
A,2 CE FECE|AECE FECE|A,CB,D CEDF|1 EGBd (3cBA A2:|2 EGBd (3cBA cd||
|:eAfA eAcd|eAfA e2 (3agf|eAfA eAce|dece B2 cd|
eAfA eAcd|eAfA e2 fg|agfe fedc|1 defg a2 cd:|2 defg a2 A2||
2
X: 2
T: Big John McNeil
R: reel
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: Gmaj
G,2B,D EDB,D|GDB,D EDB,D|G,2B,D EDB,D|EB,DB, A,CB,A,|
G,2B,D EDB,D|GDB,D EDB,D|C2EC B,CDB,|1 A,G,F,G, A,B,CA,:|2 A,G,F,G, A,2Bc||
|:dG~G2 dGeG|dG~G2 defg|dG~G2 gfed|cA=FA cFAc|
dG~G2 dGeG|dG~G2 defg|gfed edcB|1 AGFG A2Bc:|2 AGFE DCB,A,||
3
X: 3
T: Big John McNeil
R: reel
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: Gmaj
G,2B,D EDB,D|GDB,D EDB,D|G,2B,D EDB,D|GEDB, A,2B,A,|
G,2B,D EDB,D|GDB,D EDB,D|C2EC B,2DB,|1 A,B,CD EDB,A,:|2 A,B,CD EFGB||
|:dG~G2 dGeG|dG~G2 FGAB|dG~G2 gfed|cA=FA c2Bc|
dG~G2 dGeG|dG~G2 FGAd|gfed edcB|1 AGFG ABcA:|2 AGFE DCB,A,||
4
X: 4
T: Big John McNeil
R: reel
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: Gmaj
G2|:G,2 B,D EDB,D|GDB,D EDB,D|G,2 B,D EDB,D|EGFE DCB,A,|
G,2 B,D EDB,D|GDB,D EDB,D|G,B,A,C B,DCE|1 DFAc (3BAG G2:|2 DFAc (3BAG Bc||
|:dGeG dGBc|dGeG d2 (3gfe|dGeG dGBd|cdBd A2 Bc|
dGeG dGBc|dGeG d2 ef|gfed edcB|1 cdef g2 Bc:|2 cdef g2 G2||
5
X: 5
T: Big John McNeil
R: reel
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: Amaj
|:A,2 CE FECE|AECE FECB,|A,2 CE FECE|FECA, ~B,2 CB,|
A,2 CE FECE|AECE FECE|(3DDD F2 (3CCC E2|1 B,A,G,A, B,CDB,:|2 B,A,G,A, B,CD2||
|:eA (3AAA eAfA|eA (3AAA efga|eA (3AAA agfe|dBGB (3ddd cd|eA (3AAA eAfA|
eA (3AAA efge|1 agfe fedc|dcBA Bcd^d:|2 agfe fedc|BAGF EDCB,||
6
X: 6
T: Big John McNeil
R: reel
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: Amaj
|:A,2 CE FECE|AECE FECB,|A,2 CE FECE|FAGF EDCB,|
A,2 CE FECE|AECE FECB,|A,CB,D CEDF|1 EGBd cAA z:|2 EGBd cAcd||
|:eAfA eAcd|eAfA e2 (3agf|eAfA eAce|dece B2 cd|eAfA eAcd|
eAfA e2 fg|agfe fedc|1 defg a2 gf:|2 BAGF EDCB,:|3defg a2||
7
X: 7
T: Big John McNeil
R: reel
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: Amaj
|:A,2 CE FECE|AECE FECB,|A,2 CE FECE|AECA, B,DCB,|
A,2 CE FECE|AECE FECB,|D2 AD CEAE|1 B,A,B,C DEFE:|2 B,A,B,C DEFA||
|:eA~A2 eAfA|eA~A2 efga|eA~A2 agfe|=gdBd =GdBd|
eA~A2 eafa|eA~A2 efge|agfe fedc|1 BAGA Bcdf:|2 BAGF EDCB,||
8
X: 8
T: Big John McNeil
R: reel
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: Dmaj
|:dA|D2FA BAFA|dAFA BAFA|D2FA BAFA|BdcB AGFE|
D2FA BAFA|dAFA BAFA|DFEG FAGB|Aceg fd:|
|:fg|adbd adfg|adbd a2fg|adbd adfa|gafa e2 fg|
adbd adfg|adbd a2fe|dcBA BAGF|GABc d2:|
9
X: 9
T: Big John McNeil
R: reel
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: Amaj
|:A,2 CE FECE|AE (3EEE F ECE|A,2 CE FECE|B,AGF EDCB,|
A,2 (3B,CE FECE|AECE FECE|CD (3DDD CDEB,|(3CB,A, B,C A,3 G,:|
|:eA (3AAA eAfA|eA (3AAA efga|eA (3AAA agfe|d2 Bd =GdBd|
eA (3AAA eAfA|eA (3AAA Aefg|agfe fedc|1 BAGF EFGA:|2 BAGF EDCB,||
# Added by jmeme .
10
X: 10
T: Big John McNeil
R: reel
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: Amaj
A2|:A,2 CE FECE|AECE FECE|A,2 CE FECE|FAGF EDCB,|
A,2 CE FECE|AECE FECE|B,DCE DFE=G|1 FAGB cA A2:|2 FAGB cAA cd||

Forty-seven comments

Big John McNeil

I couldn’t find this tune anywhere on The Session, and given its popularity in Canada, it seemed an amazing omission. Chris Ricker had the nicest arrangement that I could find, so I, um, adapted it from his site. Or “adopted” may be the better word.

I’ve seen the tune attributed to Trad, but I believe the author is Peter Milne, who called it simply “John O’Neill”. However, I think the robust nature of the piece earns it the “Big”.

This tune is of Scottish origin. I think Big John McNeil was one of the McNeils of Barra, in the Hebrides - the same family which brought us Brian McNeil of the Battlefield Band and the traditional Scots Gaelic singer, Flora McNeil.

Would normally be played in A major but played in G by the kilfenora c

Lord Ramsey

Far and away the best known name for this tune is Big John McNeill’s, certainly in Scotland, and I’m pretty sure it is Scottish in origin. There is another quite different tune called “Lord Ramsey’s” - I think Joannie Madden might have recorded it. Scottish fiddlers would usually play it in A with all the G notes sharp. I’ve heard a version of it in Ireland in A but with the Gs natural - the Dubliners used to play it that way, and possibly De Danann. First time I’ve encountered it in G.

Posted by .

Big John McNeil

I learnt this tune from one of my tutors,the famous lochilart fiddler, Angus Grant .Angus is very good friends with the famous Bert Murray from Aberdeen. Bert played this tune in a very good march,strathspey and reel set. First of all he played a pipe march called “The Stirlingshire Milita”,then he played a strathspey called “A Gloomy Winter”(which is also played by Richard Wood) and then he finished of with Big John McNeill.

There’s actually a recording

Though this won’t be much help: There was a commercially available cassette made of the players who won or placed in the National Scottish Fiddle championship of (?year?). This tune is played by one of the performers in his set. Email me if you want and I’ll try to locate it.

Big John McNeil

De Danann recorded this under a wrong name on “The Mist Covered Mountain” LP. A setting was published in Tony “Sully” Sullivan’s first tune collection.

The tune works amazingly well on a fiddle tuned AEAE (“high bass” as they call it in Cape Breton), so well that I wonder whether this wasn’t the way it was initially played.

I’m pretty sure Big John’s is a Canadian tune. I will make an effort to back myself up with some solid facts and get back to you…

This is almost identical to John McNeill’s reel (Big John McNeill) but, as Kenny says, the key is different. I’ve always believed this to be a Scottish tune composed by Peter Milne who certainly usually gets the credit for it back home.

John

Recordings

there’s also a recording of this tune on the barachois CD, but it doesn’t come up on the list of recordings, because it’s in a set called “les deux johns”
Anders

Old-Timers

Many of the old-time fiddlers that I know play this after St. Anne’s Reel.

Lord Ramsey/Big Joe McNeill’s

I learnt this reel at the Fleadh Cheoil in Listowel, Co. Kerry. in 1981 from a Canadian fiddler who called it Big Joe McNeill’s, so I’ve always thought it is from Canada. But the version I was taught has an A minor first part that must be played twice, and a A major second part that must be played only once. There were other two people with me, Massimo Greco, a banjo player from Rome, and an English fiddler named Dominick something who then lived in Milan, but I met him again in Umbria last summer (2006). Massimo, this Dominick and me were the ones who spread this tune in Italy, so if you hear this version in Italy put the blame on us.

Fiddlers!

Hi, all fiddlers:

Do any of you have a particular fingering for playing the B part of this tune, especially the first phrase (I play a triplet instead of the roll, incidentally)? Do you slide up to third position? Or do you just bend or flatten your third finger down from the G to the d and use your pinky for the e? Include the bowing, too, if it’s relevent.

If you respond, email me to let me know that you did.

Thanks!

Composers, names

Peter Milne wrote it, and did so under the name “John McNeill’s Reel”

John McNeill’s Reel

John McNeill was a famous Highland dancer at the turn of the 20th century. The legendary piper Angus MacPherson competed against McNeil several times, and said of him, “Oh aye, he threw a fine leg!” Peter Milne (the composer of the tune)’s student and friend James Scott Skinner wrote another tune for McNeill:

X:407
T:John McNeill’s Highland Fling
C:James Scott Skinner
B:Harp & Claymore
Z:Nigel Gatherer
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:A
a | e>A A/A/A a>Ac<a | c/d/e =g>d B>GG>f |
e>A A/A/A a>Ac<a | c/d/e a>e c>AA :|
e | a/g/f e>A a>Ac<a | =g/f/e d>G g>GB<g |
a/g/f e>A a>Ae>d | c/d/e a>e c>AA>e |
(3agf (3edc (3agf (3edc | (3gfe (3dcB (3gfe d>f |
e>A A/A/A a>Ac<a | c/d/e a>e c>AA |]

Big John McNeill

Can anyone direct me to the sheet music or ABC of the version on Slide’s Harmonic Motion album?
Thanks

Re: Big John McNeill

Thanks, but it’s not the version I’m looking for.

Re: Big John McNeill

I’ve only ever heard the one version.

Re: Big John McNeill

Molaoch - Do you know of any Youtube clips of it, or somesuch like? (…the things we take for granted these days.)

There’s another version here https://thesession.org/tunes/1277 posted as Lord Ramsey. This is the version I’ve heard most often in Ireland, although usually in A, not in G as posted here.

NameChanges….
Thanks for your help. No, it’s not that Lord Ramsey one either. The only place I’ve heard the version I’m looking for is on the Slide album.

The American band Fiddle Fever do an amazing version of this tune, with the second part sliding down the keys.

Another version in G

One of Jimmy Mullarkey’s favourites:

K: Gmaj
G,2B,D EDB,D|GDB,D EDB,D|G,2B,D EDB,D|GEDB, A,2B,A,|
G,2B,D EDB,D|GDB,D EDB,D|C2EC B,2DB, |1 A,B,CD EDB,A,:|2 A,B,CD EFGB||
|:dG~G2 dGeG|dG~G2 FGAB|dG~G2 gfed|cA=FA c2Bc|
dG~G2 dGeG|dG~G2 FGAd|gfed edcB|1 AGFG ABcA:|2 AGFE DCB,A,||

“I think Big John McNeil was one of the McNeils of Barra, in the Hebrides - the same family which brought us Brian McNeil of the Battlefield Band and the traditional Scots Gaelic singer, Flora McNeil.”

Not quite. It is as Nigel says. Brian McNeill (two ‘ls’) is a Falkirk man, not from Barra. Flora MacNeil has a daughter, Maggie MacInnes, who is a fine singer and harpist, and lives near Symington in Ayrshire.

Big John on You Tube

Nice version by Sierra Noble, Daibhí. She’s fast and clean, with spirit. Just learned this as John McNeil

Brian McNeill (two ‘ls’) is a Falkirk man

It would be unlikely that Brian McNeill’s family have been from Falkirk from the year dot. Is is equally unlikely that their surname would have been spelt in exactly the same way throughout the last several hundred years. There are a few branches of McNeils etc. ( see for instance the various spellings of the name even for this tune) but they don’t all come from Barra, some might be from Colonsay , for example.

“It would be unlikely that Brian McNeill’s family have been from Falkirk from the year dot”

Obviously not. However, it is patently obvious that “the family who brought us Flora McNeil” ain’t the same one who “brought us” Brian. The spelling would also suggest a link with the Argyll MacNeills - that would encompass the Colonsay MacNeills forby. The MacNeils of Barra wouldn’t have been there from the year dot, either. It is believed that they stem from Irish Ua Néills. Things get too convoluted to start making precise claims of lineage, though.

“ see for instance the various spellings of the name even for this tune”

Aye, but John McNeill, the dancer, spelled his own name “McNeill”. It is also believed that he was from the Gigha MacNeills - the Argyll mob. The various way tunes get spelled doesn’t always tally with the person they are dedicated to.

Lord Ramsey reel versus Big John MacNeil

It seems to me on the two tunes the A parts are nearly identical but the B parts are distinctly different? I have always thought Big John was a Canadian tune -- most of the better known fiddlers up there play it. I’d never heard of Lord R until I read this on Sessions. I wonder if John is maybe a Canadian alteration of Lord?

I would suggest that the title “Big John MacNeill” came about to distinguish this tune (with 8 bar parts) from Peter Milne’s original “John MacNeill’s Reel” (with 4 bar parts). I.e., it’s “John MacNeill’s” made bigger.

Big John McNeil, X:5

I can’t believe I’m the first one to write out the Irish version of this, the last track on De Danann’s Mist Covered Mountain LP. I have a recording of Sean Maguire playing it in a London pub back in the 60s too and perhaps he brought it back from America? Anyway I think this is the gist of this bass string classic.

Re: Lord Ramsey

I am surprised that the recording “Meiteal” by Stephen Cooney & Seamus Begley is not on the list.

Re: Big John McNeil

Somewhere in the move from Scotland to the US and Canada John McNeil had a couple of notes changed. The 7th measure of the A part is B-D-C-E D-F-E-G. This is the original notation. The more common notation in the US is A-C-B-D C-E-D-F. Both notations come very quickly and make little difference in the tune. However, when playing with a Scot, they will frown and say you are playing something different. And when researching to find the original notation one can get confused. I never could figure out how to play that little run because there was always something different. Not until I saw the written versions side by side did I solve the problem.

Nigel, do you agree?

Sylvia Miskoe, Concord NH USA

Re: Big John McNeil

Hi Sylvia. Peter Milne published his “John McNeil’s Reel” in Middleton’s Collection (1870) and, as you say, the last two bars of the A part are written:
| B,DCE DFE=G | FA^GB cAA ||
- this is the way I’ve always played it. Interestingly, in that book the reel is preceded by a strathspey of the same name (composed by Peter Milne, not the Skinner tune which I mentioned above), in which the first bar matches the American run you’re talking about:
| A,>CB,D C>ED>F |

Anyway, I agree that it matters little which you play when you’re performing solo, but quite a lot when there’s two or more playing both settings at once!

Big John McNeil, X:8

Whistle setting, transposed to D.

Play it on an “A” whistle and it comes out in the key of A Major, the most common fiddle key.

Play it on a “G” whistle and it comes out in the key of G Major, sometimes heard in sessions.