The Dawning Of The Day barndance

Help i’m confused. Its meant to be in 3/4 waltz time but there are 4 beats per bar!

Really! It’s actually a March but that option is not provided when a tune is submitted. I classified as a Waltz as the next best option.

A waltz is always in 3/4, no exceptions in ITM. If there are 4 beats in the bar it cannot be a waltz, again no exceptions. Since thesession.org database doesn’t define a march by a particular time signature (actually you can’t - a march can be in almost any time signature) you’ve got to choose, for the purposes of the database format, a permitted tune format with 4 beats in the bar - reel, barndance, or hornpipe. In this instance the most suitable option for me would be the barndance. That doesn’t mean that the tune is now a barndance, it just means that the database is now happy. What you do then, as you’ve already done, is to post a comment telling everybody that the tune is really a march.
The time signature needs to be changed to 4/4 and the tune type from waltz to e.g. barndance. Is this possible at this stage for us punters, or does Jeremy have to delve into the system?

Caoimhin,is this not the tune that the song/poem ‘raglan road’ is often sung to?
i would be interested to know the origin of this tune,if you or anyone else knows.
by the way,the van morrison/chieftains version of the above is more in 3/4 time than anything else so perhaps posting this march with a waltz time signature is a rare case of having your cake and eating it!

Whatever kind of tune this is, you’re missing a bar line in the last line. I believe the full measure rest is unnecessary. And because of the pickup notes, you won’t need to put any more than the last dotted half note in the final measure.

I think the poster of the tune can alter the ABC that’s been posted (time signature, tune type, missing bar lines etc in this case), but I don’t know whether the alterations are automatically reflected in the sheetmusic. You can but try!

Lets call it a polonaise and be done with - a spaghetti one, at that.

For many years I have only known this tune as a march which is nearly always associated with beginners - it’s a very common starter tune particularly for young whistle players which probably accounts for it being a definite "no-no" in session circles! However, having heard the song version (Raglan Road - I think the singer was the late great Luke Kelly) my appreciation of the melody, when expressed with feeling and taste, has been totally transomed for the better.

Hmm, now we have a 2/4 polka with 4 quarter notes per bar. Gradually getting there.

Not all of the abc file can be edited. I could not change the meter to 4/4.

You shouldn’t have changed the ABC at all. I changed the tune type to polka because the tune was in 2/4.

Now the ABC no longer matches.

Boy am I sorry that I posted this at all. The tune is one that I learned at a session for beginners and I posted it because I wanted a copy in my tune book. I am sorry that I assumed that I could participate with such greatness as is found on this site. I’ll find another way to learn and progress and won’t bother you any more. My sincerest apologies to all.

I shouldn’t worry about it overmuch, Caoimhin. No reason why we shouldn’t have this tune here — it may not be much of a regular session tune, but it is indeed one of the first tunes that most Irish players learn — and it’s handy to teach certain things with. It’s only one person’s opinion, after all.

Zina

Anyone who’s got nothing nice to say: Zina said recently to go and sit by her! :-)

Yes, but keep in mind that what that might mainly get you is a slap upside the head… *snort*

to answer big daves question, its and old gaelic melody that a poet put words to. not unlike yeats putting words to the sally gardens.

M: 4/4
L: 1/4
R: polka
K: Dmaj
|: D/E/ |F F F E/F/ |A A B A/F/ |D E D C | D3 A |
B>A B/c/ d | F>E D F |A F d F | E3 A |
B>A B d |F>E D F |A F d F | E3 D/E/ |
F F F E/F/ |A A B A/F/ |D E D C |D3 :|

K: Gmaj
|: G/A/ | B B B A/B/ | d d e d/B/ | G>B A>F | G3 (3Bcd |
e>d e/f/ g | B/>c/ B/A/ G>B | d B g B | A3 (3Bcd |
e>d e g | B>A G B | d>B g B | A3 G/A/ |
B B B A/B/ | d>d e d/B/ | G B A F | G3 :|

& ~ K: Amaj

Hard to believe i’m posting 2 years after this thread started (i’m new on here)!
I just searched for this tune under Fainne Geal an Lae (literally Bright Ring of the day) having heard Steve Cooney play a wonderful version which comes across as quite different to the standard tune when on guitar (see RTE late session concerts at http://www.rte.ie/radio1/story/1015109.html). Steve says in intro that it came from the Goodman collection of old pipe tunes. Oh and I’ve heard Richard Thompson’s lovely version with new lyrics, the Dimming of the Day.

Hi all Im new to this site, I first came accross this tune in an old collection of pipe tunes, "David Glens Irish collection" other than Raglan Road there is also a song by Andrew Hunter set to this tune called Kilbowie Hill

X: 1
T: Dawning Of The Day, The
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
R: march
K: D Major
DE |\
F2 F2 F2 EF | A2 A2 B2 AF | D2 E2 D2 D2 | D6 A2 |
B3 A B2 d2 | F3 E D2 F2 | A2 F2 d2 F2 | E6 A2 |
B3 A B2 d2 | F3 E D2 F2 | A2 F2 d2 F2 | E6 DE |
F2 F2 F2 EF | A2 A2 B2 AF | D2 F2 E2 D2 | D6 |]

Key signature: D Major
Submitted on January 30th 2008 by oxfords1.
~ tunes/display/8198

X: 1134
T: Dawning Of The Day (note Correction), The
M: 2/4
L: 1/8
R: polka
K: Dmaj
D2E2F4F4F4|E2F2A4A4B4|A2F2D4E4D4|D2D8|A4B6A2B4|d4F6E2D4|F4G2A4F6|d4F4E8|
F2A2B6A2B4|d4F6E2D4|F4G2A4F6|d4F4E8|D2E2F4F4F4|E2F2A4A4B4|A2F2D4E4D4|D2D12

X: 1134
T: Dawning Of The Day, The
N: "(note Correction)" ~ :-/ ~ Huh?! (little difference)
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
R: march
K: D Major
DE |\
F2 F2 F2 EF | A2 A2 B2 AF | D2 E2 D2 D2 | D6 A2 |
B3 A B2 d2 | F3 E D2 FG | AF- F2 d2 F2 | E6 FA |
B3 A B2 d2 | F3 E D2 FG | AF- F2 d2 F2 | E6 DE |
F2 F2 F2 EF | A2 A2 B2 AF | D2 E2 D2 D2 | D6 |]

Several clips on youtube of Luke Kelly singing Raglan Road. This one starts with Patrick Kavanagh who wrote the words:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kBndHNJoC0k

play video

Robin Williamson’s ‘The Penny Whistle Book’ says "Its authorship is attributed to Thomas Connelan, the harper, born at Cloonmahon, County Sligo, around 1640. His name for the tune was The Golden Star" but googling about a bit picks up some doubts about that.

Williamson gives a setting in Amix "based on a bagpipe slow march version". Several of such on youtube. One basic rendering here (after the initial solo): http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWJpTBZ-Wgc

play video

X: 1
T: Dawning Of The Day, The
M: 4/4
N: Final f held for 3 beats last time only.
L: 1/8
R: march
K:Amix
AB|\
c2 c2 c2 Bc|e2 e2 f2 ec|A2 cB A2 B2|A6 e2|
f3 e f2 a2 |c3 B A2 cd |e2 c2 a2 c2|B6 ce|
f3 e f2 a2 |c3 B A2 cd |e2 c2 a2 c2|B6 AB|
c2 c2 c2 Bc|e2 e2 f2 ec|A2 cB A2 B2|A6|

(and all I was doing was looking for a tune to give my C#s a workout)

And as for the Luke Kelly version - if you’ve got the words, why do you need the dots !
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2006/nov/12/poetry.features

Its getting played more and more by Scottish Pipe Bands these days which lets you know how far that culture has come.

I started playing the pipes in 1973 and competed in every grade right up to Grade one with one of the best bands of the lot.

For most of that time I wouldn’t say Irish culture was celebrated in any way. I was at the Worlds a couple of years ago and nearly dropped dead when I saw a young guy there in a Celtic Strip! How times change.

Here’s a take on this tune in 3/4 time, another way with it. It also carries well in G and other keys too…

Here’s the march version of this melody, with other takes given in the ‘comments’ ~

https://thesession.org/tunes/1441

Submitted on January 15th 2010 by ceolachan
https://thesession.org/tunes/10192

Maidin moch do ghabhas amach
Ar bhruach Locha Léin
An Samhradh ‘teacht ‘s an chraobh len’ ais
Is ionrach te ón ngréin
Ar thaisteal dom trí bhailte poirt
Is bánta míne réidhe
Cé a gheobhainn le m’ais ach an chúileann deas
Le fáinne geal an lae

Ní raibh bróg ná stoca, caidhp ná clóc
Ar mo stóirín óg ón speir
Ach folt fionn órga síos go troigh
Ag fás go barr an fhéir
Bhí calán crúite aici ina glaic
‘S ar dhrúcht ba dheas a scéimh
Do rug barr gean ar Bhéineas deas
Le fáinne geal an lae

Do shuigh an bhrídoeg síos le m’ais
Ar bhinse glas den fhéar
Ag magadh léi, bhíos dá maíomh go pras
Mar mhnaoi nach scarfainn léi
‘S é dúirt sí liomsa, "Imigh uaim
Is scaoil ar siúl mé a réic
Sin iad aneas na soilse ag teacht
Le fáinne geal an lae

Particularly the A part. Have you played it this way in a session or two?

Nice to see it recognised too as 3/4; maith an fear!

Maybe interested players/singers would like to know that it is often sung "sean nos" which means that there is the scope for considerable personal interpretation.

"Sean nos" literally means "in the o;d style" or "as of old".

Those lucky enough will never forget that experience in a session or gathering, when someone will proffer an old song or air in that style.

Best wishes

Brian x

Yes two times ~ and also ~

K: Dmaj
DE |\
F4 F2 | F3 E F2 | A4 FA | B2 A2 F2 | D4 FE | D4 D2 | D6- | D4 FA |
B4 GA | B4 dA | F4 E/F/E | D4 F2 | A4 F2 | dF- F4 | E6- | E4 FA | ~

& I love sean nos…

Bill Haneman posts the Memoirs of Arthur O’Neill http://billhaneman.ie/AIH/MemoirsOfArthurONeill.html, where the editor is unnamed but corroborates the Williamson version in the early years of the 20c. It’s quite clear that O’Neill knew Golden Star and that it is NOT The Dawning of the Day.

X: 4
T: The Dawning Of The Day/Fainne Geal an Lae
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
N: as per Liam O’Flynn recording The Poet & The Piper
K: Gmaj
|: GA |B2 B2 B2 AB | d3e fedB | AGAB GAB2 | B6 GA |
B2 B2 B2 AB | d3e fedB | AGAB GA G2|G6 GA |
B2 B2 B2 AB | d3e fedB | AGAB GAB2 | B6 GA |
B2 B2 B2 AB | d3e fedB | AGAB GA G2 |G6 BA |
Bdef g2fg |eged BABd |e2 e2 f2 d2|e3f g3e |
B2 B2 B2 AB | d3e fedB | AGAB GAG2 |G6 BA |
Bdef g2fg |eged BABd |e2 e2 f2 d2|e3f g3e|
B2 B2 B2 AB | d3e fedB | AGAB GAG2 | G6 :|

He plays this on a whistle then on his pipes …both pitched in B.

X: 4
T: The Dawning Of The Day/Fainne Geal an Lae
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
N: as per Liam O’Flynn recording The Poet & The Piper
K: Gmaj
|: GA |B2 B2 B2 AB | d3e fedB | AGAB GAB2 | B6 GA |
B2 B2 B2 AB | d3e fedB | AGAB GA G2|G6 GA |
B2 B2 B2 AB | d3e fedB | AGAB GAB2 | B6 GA |
B2 B2 B2 AB | d3e fedB | AGAB GA G2 |G6 BA |
Bdef g2fg |eged BABd |e2 e2 f2 d2|e3f g3e |
B2 B2 B2 AB | d3e fedB | AGAB GAG2 |G6 BA |
Bdef g2fg |eged BABd |e2 e2 f2 d2|e3f g3e|
B2 B2 B2 AB | d3e fedB | AGAB GAG2 | G6 :|

Taken from the Raw Bar Collective (https://thesession.org/recordings/3937 Track 6) and the playing of Conal O’Grada

X: 5
T: The Dawning Of The Day/Fainne Geal an Lae
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
N: Taken from Raw Bar Collective
K: Gmaj
|: GA |B2 B2 B2 AB | d3e fedB | AGAB G2G>A | G6
Bd | e3 f g3 f | edBe d2 Bd | e3 g fedB | e3 f gfed |
|B2 B2 B2 AB | d3e fedB | AGAB G2G>A | G6 ||

I’ve heard this tune/ air quite often recently on RTE radio - it’s become quite popular I think due to the wonderful singing of Iarla O’Lionaird. I think I’ve heard a Steve Cooney solo guitar version as well. You can hear a version of the song at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKIYyY67yM4

play video

This is not the bog standard Fainne Geal An Lae taught to all beginners up and down the country but something finer perhaps altogether.

I note that member ‘boydp’ posted a version of it a year ago on the standard versions which he took from Liam O’Flynn’s - The Poet and the Piper. The version I’ve posted here differs slightly and it’s what I heard on RTE radio recently played by Liam O’Flynn and Steve Cooney I think. They played the tune version at a good clip - a different animal to the song tempo.

There are some parallels with the standard Fainne Geal An Lae, the main phrase is not dissimilar. The structure though differs - the ‘normal’ version is 1221, whereas as this 1121 and higher part differs.

A version of this was already posted here:
https://thesession.org/tunes/10192#comment722186
and here:
https://thesession.org/tunes/1441#comment722187
Although they are only in the comments, not in the tune settings.

This is true, I am fully familiar with the standard ‘Dawning of the Day’ and I noted that - but why has it it been moved back? Clearly there is some shared territory between these two melodies but I’ll wager you that if you picked ten people off the street and played both melodies, they’d say they are different. Put it this way, disregarding the tune/ march versions - take Luke Kelly singing Raglan Road and Iarla O’Lionaird singing Fainne Geal an Lae as in above link and they are quite different. I’m used to modification of discussion comments on this site but I’ll be fecked if I’ll bother to submit melodies and find them shifted around..

Furthermore, the name of this melody is Fainne Geal an Lae, not the Dawning of the Day as listed now in the title of my setting above..

Just wondering JACKB why you added this other setting of Fainne Geal an Lae. Is it a local version? Doesn’t follow the same pattern as the song. See the link to Iarla O’Lionaird singing it above.

IMHO, Iarla O’Lionaird likely sings a version close to the original song, Fainne Geal an Lae. Whilst related, the more common march/ Raglan Road air called Dawning of the Day is sufficiently different in form for these to be considered separate melodies.

However the powers that be here have decided that they are the same. I haven’t bothered to submit anymore tunes to this site since my entry for Fainne Geal an Lae was shoved in here two years ago or more.

I poked around on YouTube and listened to a lot of recordings of Raglan Road - Dubliners, Chieftans, Van Morrison, Sinead O’Connor and the one that seems to be the definitive one, Luke Kelly. None of the tune settings above seems to even come close to the way Luke Kelly sings it. They all have a note different here and there, but the one below sticks fairly closely, give or take a note here and there, to the Luke Kelly version. It most certainly is in 3/4 time but NOT a waltz. It is always sung slowly with feeling, whatever that makes it. I can hear it played plaintively on a low D whistle…

X:1
T:Raglan Road
T:Dawning of the Day
T:Fainne Geal an Lae
R:Waltz
C:Trad.
N:Poem by Patrick Kavanagh (1904-67)
O:Ireland
M:3/4
L:1/4
Q:1/4=140
K:G
"G" (G/A/)|B2 A|B2 A/B/|"D"d2 d|"C" e2 (d/B/)|"G" G2 (B/A/)|"C" G2 A|"G"(G3-|G) z d|
"C" e2 d|e2 g|"G" B2 A|G2 (d/e/)|"G" d2 B|"Em" g2 B|"Am"(A3|A) z d|
"C" e2 d|e2 g|"G" B2 A|G2 d|"G" d2 c/B/|"Em" g2 B|"D" (A3|"D7" A) z G/A/|
"G" B2 A|B2 A/B/|d2 d|"C" e2 d/B/|"G" G2 (B/A/)|"C" G2 A|"G" G3-|G2|]

I have always heard it in 3/4, though maybe because I’ve mostly heard it as the "Raglan Road" song.

If I may be permitted a wee bit of thread drift, as we are so close to the 75th anniversary of D-Day: here is Jim Radford’s song, "The Shores of Normandy". Jim was the youngest survivor of D-Day at age 15.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X6WxLbTmok

play video