Spancil Hill waltz

The title refers to a little village in County Clare (about 3 miles outside of Ennis on the road to Tulla). This is also the home of the renowned singer and composer, Robbie McMahon. Although Robbie’s version and rendition of this song is unique, it’s not one of his own compositions but was written by a Clare exile named Considine in the USA. Tragically the writer died at an early age and never achieved his ambition of returning to his native county.

Shouldn’t the time signature be 6/8 rather than 3/4, therefore a jig rather than a waltz?

I should have added that if the time signature is in 6/8 then it seems appropriate for this tune that the speed should be more waltz speed than jig speed.

This is definitely a waltz and not a not a jig - sung as a jig the song would sound rediculous. It should be shown in 3/4 time.

Sorry about the "typo" with the 2 "not a" - maybe I got too frustrated at the thought of this melancholy song being trotted out in jig time!

I recognised that there would be problems in converting the tune at this stage to a true 3/4, which is why I suggested in my second post that, although in 6/8, it should be played at waltz speed. Not the ideal solution admittedly, but if the ABC is written in 6/8 then the database system is going to "see" it as a jig, come what may.

Hi Bannerman
This is a common dilemma in writing out abc’s for Waltz type tunes. In my opinion the only correct solution here is to write the tune as a waltz in 3/4 but with the note durations changed and the bars also changed to suit:
B2E B2B |A2F D2E would become:
B4 E2|B4 B2|A4 F2|D4 E2| etc
This preserves the waltz like pulse of three beats to the bar but maybe needs to be played a little faster than the dots would suggest.
Cheers
Donough

As an addendum or explanation to my last comment about the pulse. On re-reading I thought I should explain better.
If you were a dancer listening to the beat of the music you would look for groups of 1,2,3. and in the music that can only happen if the first note counts for two of those beats. In 3/4 this has to mean that the first note is a "half note" ( 2x 1/4) and the second a "Quarter".
Now I’ve probably confused everyone!!
Cheers
Donough

Thanks Donough for your solution - this is the normal way that the music for Spancil Hill would be written. For anyone who’d like to sing the song, a popular version (Robbie McMahon’s version is considerably longer) can be found at http://starship.python.net/crew/manus/music/irish/spancil.html. However, ignore the melody on the site as there are a few dubious notes played!!

Couldn’t resist. First off, calling any song or tune in 3/4 time a Waltz is a bit like calling any tune or song in 2/4 or 4/4 a Reel: it ain’t neccessarily so. Having said that, I’d say Spancil Hill as a song, could be written in 6’/8, 3/8 or 3/4. If written in 3/4, however, it should not look like a jig, as it does here. Attempting to play the tune in a true 3/4 as written is just too weird! I haven’t done much with abc, but I know enough to know it doesn’t have to come out looking like this. Practically speaking, I just play it the way it looks, as a jig. It’s not very satisfying as a jig, and maybe it would be best to classify it as an air, or a song (can you do that? )

For those who want all the eleven verses and the story behind them:
http://www.geocities.com/lorettapage/irish/span2.html

yah.. why would someone, make this song , about a man remember his life in Spancil Hill into an upbeat jig.. ^o)
…seems kinda stupid to me

The way I see it, 3/4 is the rhythm of a waltz no matter how fast or slow it’s played, or what it’s played on, or if it’s sung. Just because people don’t typically dance the waltz to a song like this one, does not change it’s category, although it may not be played the same as waltzes specifically meant for dancing to.

Trying to play it like a jig seems pretty much impossible to me, because when translated into 6/8 there aren’t really any separated 4th beats!!

Rather than the rhythm in the sheet music here, which is laid out|1/4-1/8-1/4-1/8|, if you think of |1/2-1/4|1/2-1/4| (doubling the number of bars in the song) you get the slow speed needed and the beat on the long notes. Considering even just how much simpler it looks I believe you will find this song is a waltz, and in no way translatable to even a lethargic jig (if that is possible) without altering it to the point that it doesn’t retain the same character at all.

Page 8 of "Soodlum’s Irish Tin Whistle Tutor" has the tune laid out as I describe and it works nicely. http://unitedireland.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/spnlhl-c.gif

I hemmed and hauled and never came to my point, in this song every first note of three is more or less evenly accented, like a waltz. In a jig ever OTHER first beat of three is more strongly than the other first beat of three.

A waltz = BANGtaptap | BANGtaptap

A jig = BANGtaptap bangtaptap | BANGtaptap bangtaptap |

Slip Jig = | BANGtaptap bangtaptap bangtaptap | BANGtaptap bangtaptap bangtaptap |

This may seem picky but I believe that it helps the music make a lot more sense to dancers whose rhythmic requirements are what dictated the need for these complex timings in the first place. Otherwise jigs would be written in 3/8 and there would be no need for 6/8 or 9/8 at all. The fact that it was composed specifically as a song suggests that it doesn’t conform to a complex dance rhythm.

It seems this is another one of those, sadly, where some yahoo dumps a tune and doesn’t bother to comment, or possibly even to come back here and see that there is comment being left…

X: 1
T: Spancil Hill
M: 3/4
L: 1/4
R: jig
K: Edor
|: B2 E | B2 B | A2 F | D2 E | F A G | E2 D | E3- | E2 B |
B2 e | e2 f | e2 d | B2 c | d2 e | d c B | A3- | A2 B |
B2 e | e2 f | e2 d | B2 c | d2 e | d c B | A3- | A d c |
B2 E | B2 B | A2 F | D2 E | F A F | E2 D | E3- | E3 :|]

X: 1
T: Spancil Hill
M: 3/4
L: 1/8
R: jig
K: Edor
|: B4 E2 | B4 B2 | A4 F2 | D4 E2 | F2 A2 G2 | E4 D2 | E6- | E4 B2 |
B4 e2 | e4 f2 | e4 d2 | B4 c2 | d4 e2 | d2 c2 B2 | A6- | A4 B2 |
B4 e2 | e4 f2 | e4 d2 | B4 c2 | d4 e2 | d2 c2 B2 | A6- | A2 d2 c2 |
B4 E2 | B4 B2 | A4 F2 | D4 E2 | F2 A2 F2 | E4 D2 | E6- | E6 :|]

It seems, or so I suspect, since this is note-for-note and also sadly written out with all the mistakes, including 6/8 time, that the following is likely where tufbo’s cut-and-paste comes from. There were telling signs of it ~ like the odd and incomplete ending ~ | E3- Ez |] ~ but, they haven’t given us chords! Both may be cut-and-paste? 😏

O’Regan’s Irish Pub: O’Regan’s Session Tune Book
1224 Bishop Street, just south of Ste Catherines in Montreal, Quebec, Canada…
http://music.gordfisch.net/oregans/index.html
http://music.gordfisch.net/tradmusic/
abc notation: "Spancil Hill"
http://music.gordfisch.net/tradmusic/pub/cache/Spancil_Hill_718511.abc

http://music.gordfisch.net/tradmusic/pmwiki.php/Tunes/SpancilHill

It sounds like, from the houndog’s comment at the top, that poor tufbo’s cut-and-paste was originally 3/4, and then someone coerced him into changing the time signature. This means that the likely source for the lot, including the jiggification of the O’Regan transcript, is most likely from the extensive abc work of John Chambers available online, which includes the notes and chords as given here and there ~ the ‘lead-in’ having been left out ~

http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/abc/StPatsDay/waltz.abc

Which looks like this ~

X: 33
T: Spancil Hill
R: waltz
Z: John Chambers <jc@trillian.mit.edu>
M: 3/4
L: 1/4
K: Edor
B \
| "Em"B2E | B2B | "D"A2F | D2E | FAG | E2D | "Em"E3- | E2B |
| "Em"B2e | e2f | e2d | B2c | "D"d2e | dcB | A3- | A2B |
| "Em"B2e | e2f | e2d | B2c | "D"d2e | dcB | A3- | Adc |
| "Em"B2E | B2B | "D"A2F | D2E | FAF | E2D | "Em"E3- | Ez |]


%%sep 2 1 500

~ & cleans up like this, changing L: 1/4 to L: 1/8 ~

X: 33
T: Spancil Hill
R: waltz
Z: John Chambers <jc@trillian.mit.edu>
M: 3/4
L: 1/4
K: Edor
|: B2 |\
"Em" B4 E2 | B4 B2 | "D" A4 F2 | D4 E2 | F2 A2 G2 | E4 D2 | "Em" E6- | E4 B2 |
"Em" B4 e2 | e4 f2 | e4 d2 | B4 c2 | "D" d4 e2 | d2 c2 B2 | A6- | A4 B2 |
"Em" B4 e2 | e4 f2 | e4 d2 | B4 c2 | "D" d4 e2 | d2 c2 B2 | A6- | A2 d2 c2 |
"Em" B4 E2 | B4 B2 | "D" A4 F2 | D4 E2 | F2 A2 F2 | E4 D2 | "Em" E6- | E2 z2 :|]

Transcription Credit: John Chambers

Oops! ~ I forgot to change the L in the notation just previous…

Well, as you can see, it was posted 5 years ago, and frankly I do not posting it at all. What I do remember anyhow, is that i used JC’ s tune a lot in those days and probably learnt it off of there. Whether it is a copy or a transcribe from my memory I can not remember, but it should be credited anyhow from where I originally got it. I must have forgotten to do that, for whatever reason, but now you know. JC’ s tune finder is a good source by the way, and if you find tunes there that can not be found on this page I don’t see a problem in copying it here. But, of course, one must remember to credit one’s sources…

The reason I have not been more active in the comment section of this tune is frankly because I more or less stopped using abc and notes around this time. I guess I found out that learning by ear off the original records was both easier and better in the long run, so since then I’ve sadly only visited this site on very rare occasions, not even yearly…

Replace first sentence with:

Well, as you can see, it was posted 5 years ago, and frankly I do not REMEMBER posting it at all.

Ah, finally, a ‘comment’ from the contributor… Appreciated tufbo, even if a few years late. Sad to hear that the tune makes no connection anymore… Good to hear you are using your ears… Thanks also for the consideration, to move this and to comment… Best of luck with your music.

I thought it was here….Obviously not, after reading all the comments, but I remember seeing Spancil Hill listed as a march somewhere. If played at a lively tempo, it does sound like march-time to me.

Transposed to E-minor, for singability for tenors.

Ok, that’s 4 out of 5 scores in Em now! 😉 Tho not a straight Em as there’s a C# in it……….
My singing friends go for anything from Am to Dm.

https://youtu.be/iwETA-m8o5M

play video

So, a question concerning the High Kings’ version of Spancil Hill…

Is the tune played within their version after the 2nd verse, somewhere in the middle, and at the end, a known Irish tune, or something arranged just for this version? If a known tune, what might it be?

Thanks.