Frank Roche’s strathspey

Also known as Battle Of Arklow, Frank Roche’s Favourite, Frank Roche’s Favourite Highland Fling, Frank Roche’s Highland Fling, Lady Ann Hope, Lucy Ann Hope, Roche’s Favourite.

There are 10 recordings of a tune by this name.

Frank Roche’s has been added to 1 tune set.

Frank Roche's has been added to 102 tunebooks.

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Five settings

X: 1
T: Frank Roche's
R: strathspey
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: Gmaj
G2GB AGE2|cBce dBd<g|1 B2Bd (3cBA (3BAG|(3EFG (3FGA (3GBG (3AFD:|
[2 B2Bd (3cBA (3BAG|(3EFG (3FGA G4||
|:dgBg dgBg|(3gab (3agf e2ef|(3gab (3agf (3gfe (3dcB|
[1 (3cde (3def (3gdc (3BAG:|2 (3cde (3def (3gdc (3BcA||
# Added by JD .
X: 2
T: Frank Roche's
R: strathspey
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: Gmaj
D<GG>B A>GE2|E<cc>e d>cB<g|B2B>G c>AB>G|[1E>A G/F/E/D/ G2 G>E:|[2E>A G/F/E/D/ G2 e>f|
|:g2d>g B<gd>e|g>ab<g e2e>f|(3gab (3agf (3efg (3dcB|[1(3cde (3def (3gdc (3BcA:|[2(3cde (3def g>dg<b||
X: 3
T: Frank Roche's
R: strathspey
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: Dmaj
A,|[D/A,/][D3/2A,3/2]F2 {F}E>DB,>F|G<GG>A B>AF<d|A<FF>D GBFD|E<B,BC D3/2:|
A|d>dAd FdDd|d>dfd {c}B2Bc|d<fcA BdAF|G>BAc (3dAG (3FED|
d>dAd FdDd|d>dfd {c}B2Bc|d>fcA BdAF|E<B,BC D3/2||
X: 4
T: Frank Roche's
R: strathspey
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: Gmaj
D|G2 G>B A>G E2|c>B c>e d>B d<g|B2 B>d (3cBA (3BAG|(3EFG (3FGA (3GBG (3AFD|
G2 G>B A>G E2|c>B c>e d>B d<g|B2Bd (3cBA (3BAG|(3EFG (3FGA G3:|]
z[|d>g B>g d>g B>g|(3gab (3agf e4|(3gab (3agf (3gfe (3dcB|(3cde (3def (3gdc (3BAG|
d>g B>g d>g B>g|(3gab (3agf e4|(3gab (3agf (3gfe (3dcB|(3cde (3def (3gdc (3BcA||
G2 G>B A>G E2|c>B c>e d>B d<g|B2 B>d (3cBA (3BAG|(3EFG (3FGA (3GBG (3AFD|
G2 G>B A>G E2|c>B c>e d>B d<g|B2Bd (3cBA (3BAG|(3EFG (3FGA G3"@-22,40D.C."|]
X: 5
T: Frank Roche's
R: strathspey
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: Gmaj
D|G2- "@-18,-16~"G>B A>G E2|c>B c>e d>B d<g|B2- "@-18,10~"B>d (3cBA (3BAG|(3EFG (3FGA (3GBG (3AFD|
G2- "@-20,-16~"G>B A>G E2|c>B c>e d>B d<g|B2- "@-19,12~"B>d (3cBA (3BAG|(3EFG (3FGA G3:|]
z[|d>g B>g d>g B>g|(3gab (3agf e4|(3gab (3agf (3gfe (3dcB|(3cde (3def (3gdc (3BAG|
d>g B>g d>g B>g|(3gab (3agf e4|(3gab (3agf (3gfe (3dcB|(3cde (3def (3gdc (3BcA||
G2- "@-18,-16~"G>B A>G E2|c>B c>e d>B d<g|B2- "@-18,10~"B>d (3cBA (3BAG|(3EFG (3FGA (3GBG (3AFD|
G2- "@-20,-16~"G>B A>G E2|c>B c>e d>B d<g|B2- "@-19,12~"B>d (3cBA (3BAG|(3EFG (3FGA G3"@-22,40D.C."|]

Twenty-two comments

The source

The truth of this tune is that it is really classified as a fling.but i think that there really is no difference between a fling and a strathspey.the tune first appeared in print in the frank roach collection.

Posted by .

Further up, further in

I started playing this tune and it sounded really familiar to me. At first I couldn’t put my finger on it but then I realised that this tune was used by the Waterboys in their song "Further Up, Further In" on the album "Room to Roam".

I seem to recall Mike Scott saying it was a Scottish melody. Anybody out there know what it’s called in Scotland?

Lady ann hope

this iseems to be a version of a scottish strathspey called ‘lady ann hope’ found in the atholle collection, and no doubt others. there are far more runs of triplets in this version and a few different notes, but they are undoubtebly linked

Roche Collection

The title "Frank Roche’s" was attached when this tune was published in the Roche’s Collection, which was edited by (you guessed it) Frank Roche. It is, as weescottishfiddler notes above, a setting of William Marshall’s "Lady Ann Hope" but (sorry mairtin) strathspeys and flings really are different! In Ireland, flings imported from Scotland were played for two-hand social dancing and occasionally the figure of a set. The Scottish fling is a solo dance in competitions, I believe. The strathspey is still a solo dance in Cape Breton, as it once was in Scotland. To turn a strathspey into a fling, you generally have to simplify it a bit and play it with the right rhythmic pulse, which is approximately "get OFF me, get OFF me," etc.

This tune was actually composed by John Pringle, first appearing in 1800 in a collection of Pringle’s own tunes.

Why notated in common time?

I recently got into Irish tunes, and "studied" some of Molloy’s tunes on "stony steps".
Before I looked up the sheetmusic on here, I notated the tune in 12/8. Because listening to this tune, I don’t hear it in Common Time (metre 2/2) as Molloy plays all quavers uneven ( they would sound odd considering all the triplets in this tune).

Another thing which puzzles me: Molloy performs the triplets like triplets, not like it is often done: 2 semiquavers + 1 quaver.

Hence my 2 questions:
1. is there a difference in the execution of triplets between Irish and Scottish music
2. is it common practice to change 2 quavers into one crotchet and one quaver, in a tune with lots of triplets? (thus giving the tune a "swinging" character).

A strathspey will never be transcribed in 12/8. I don’t know exactly why: a Scottish dancer would know. But, anyway, why do you bother notating the tune or looking at the sheet music? Just trust your ears.

…triplets …

Bart, if you listen carefully, you’ll find that those triplets of Molloy’s on this tune (same for other players too) are *not* even. To a classical listener, I guess they would sound ‘rushed’. Yet, somehow, they never force the beat ahead of itself, as it were. But seriously, they’re not even. They’re really not like a classical player would play the three, evenly spaced in the time of two quavers.

Also, the long-short rhythm of this, and other flings and strathspeys is *not* the same rhythm as a crotchet and two quavers in 12/8 time. Listen to Molloy - they vary quite a bit, and quite often they will be more like a dotted quaver/semiquaver, to use classical terminology.

As slainte implies, you have to listen to get it.

Posted by .

I thought bout notating it in 12/8, because of the long-short rhythm of this, but I realize that they vary quite often.

Is ita common practice to play the quavers in that manner?

It’s common practice in this sort of tune to play the ‘long-short’ type of rhythm. But I wouldn’t describe it as a crotchet followed by a quaver. Which, I think, is why they’re not generally notated that way.

Posted by .

Okay, thanks for the replies. Once again it proofs that notation is but a relative thing.

As played by Mairi Rankin:
X: 1
T: Lady Ann Hope
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: G
D<GG>B A>GE2|E<cc>e d>cB<g|B2B>G c>AB>G|[1E>A G/F/E/D/ G2 G>E:|[2E>A G/F/E/D/ G2 e>f|
|:g2d>g B<gd>e|g>ab<g e2e>f|(3gab (3agf (3efg (3dcB|[1(3cde (3def (3gdc (3BcA:|[2(3cde (3def g>dg<b||

a light refreshment this, but not quite like an Easter hail shower.

Battle of Arklow

I have a Bradley Brother’s Irish Dance CD, and they play this as a hornpipe called "Battle of Arklow".

“Paddy Joe’s Highland” / “Frank Roche’s Strathspey” - minus the runs of triplets

Submitted on August 6th 2004 by ceolachan.
https://thesession.org/tunes/3368

Thanks to Kevin Rietmann for finding and confirming the connection…

I just found John Pringle’s collection on the Highland Music Trust and IMSLP sites: http://www.heallan.com/pringle.html

The version there, titled "Miss Hope’s Strathspey," on page 3, is in D, and much different from the Athole Collection version in G. Does anyone play it in D? Here’s the abc:

X:1
T:Miss Hope’s Strathspey
B:Collection of Reels, Strathspeys and Jigs (Edinburgh, 1801)
C:John Pringle
S:Highland Music Trust digitization, http://www.heallan.com/pringle.html
L:1/8
M:C
K:D
A,|[D/A,/][D3/2A,3/2]F2 {F}E>DB,>F|G<GG>A B>AF<d|A<FF>D GBFD|E<B,BC D3/2:|
A|d>dAd FdDd|d>dfd {c}B2Bc|d<fcA BdAF|G>BAc (3dAG (3FED|
d>dAd FdDd|d>dfd {c}B2Bc|d>fcA BdAF|E<B,BC D3/2||

Tune format

Just to note that Matt Molloy’s rendition on his Stony Steps album does not follow the format given here or on tunearch.org (http://www.tunearch.org/wiki/Frank_Roche%27s_Favourite). He plays 8-bar sections and gives the full tune an AABA format (so you get 3 A sections in a row when repeating the tune), thus:

X:1
T:Frank Roche’s Favourite
S:Matt Molloy (Stony Steps)
M:4/4
L:1/8
R:fling
K:G
D|G2 G>B A>G E2|c>B c>e d>B d<g|B2 B>d (3cBA (3BAG|(3EFG (3FGA (3GBG (3AFD|
G2 G>B A>G E2|c>B c>e d>B d<g|B2Bd (3cBA (3BAG|(3EFG (3FGA G3:|]
z[|d>g B>g d>g B>g|(3gab (3agf e4|(3gab (3agf (3gfe (3dcB|(3cde (3def (3gdc (3BAG|
d>g B>g d>g B>g|(3gab (3agf e4|(3gab (3agf (3gfe (3dcB|(3cde (3def (3gdc (3BcA||
G2 G>B A>G E2|c>B c>e d>B d<g|B2 B>d (3cBA (3BAG|(3EFG (3FGA (3GBG (3AFD|
G2 G>B A>G E2|c>B c>e d>B d<g|B2Bd (3cBA (3BAG|(3EFG (3FGA G3"@-22,40D.C."|]

Correction to last post

Ooops, sorry folks (I wish one could edit one’s posts here!!!)
Corrections in the following of a couple of typos/mis-edits to previous ABC, plus a few "extras"…. Use this one!

X:1
T:Frank Roche’s Favourite
S:Matt Molloy (Stony Steps)
N:cf http://www.tunearch.org/wiki/Frank_Roche%27s_Favourite and the original Fiddler’s Companion entry, with links to other related tunes.
M:4/4
L:1/8
R:fling
K:G
D|G2- "@-18,-16~"G>B A>G E2|c>B c>e d>B d<g|B2- "@-18,10~"B>d (3cBA (3BAG|(3EFG (3FGA (3GBG (3AFD|
G2- "@-20,-16~"G>B A>G E2|c>B c>e d>B d<g|B2- "@-19,12~"B>d (3cBA (3BAG|(3EFG (3FGA G3:|]
z[|d>g B>g d>g B>g|(3gab (3agf e4|(3gab (3agf (3gfe (3dcB|(3cde (3def (3gdc (3BAG|
d>g B>g d>g B>g|(3gab (3agf e4|(3gab (3agf (3gfe (3dcB|(3cde (3def (3gdc (3BcA||
G2- "@-18,-16~"G>B A>G E2|c>B c>e d>B d<g|B2- "@-18,10~"B>d (3cBA (3BAG|(3EFG (3FGA (3GBG (3AFD|
G2- "@-20,-16~"G>B A>G E2|c>B c>e d>B d<g|B2- "@-19,12~"B>d (3cBA (3BAG|(3EFG (3FGA G3"@-22,40D.C."|]

Would have notated it in 2/2 myself…

Re: Frank Roche’s

"Is there a difference in the execution of triplets between Irish and Scottish music?"

In Scottish fiddle music I know not, but in Highland piping the triplets in Strathspeys is one of those things that varies from player to player. You can have three top pipers using three different approaches to timing them. It’s not "anything goes" but rather a range of timing approaches that are deemed proper.

The timing varies from "tight" to "open".

The mathematically proper "two sixteenth-notes and one eighth-note" is more even, more "open", than even the most-open triplets you would hear, I think. They would never be played as actual triplets, that is, three even notes in the space of two.

On a music-writing program I once wrote out a Strathspey just to see how one would have to write the timing to get the computer to play back the tune sounding proper, with the "lift" a Strathspey is supposed to have. It was a complicated thing to do, all the strange note-values I had to use.

BTW calling a Scottish tune with a known composer and title by the title of the Irish collection it happened to appear in makes no sense- if it did we would have over a thousand Irish tunes that everyone would call "Francis O’Neill’s".