Anna Foxe hornpipe

By Josephine Marsh

There are 2 recordings of this tune.

Anna Foxe has been added to 2 tunebooks.

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Three settings

1
X: 1
T: Anna Foxe
R: hornpipe
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: Dmaj
de|:f2a2 d2cA|BdcB A2Bc|d2cd e2de|ffaf e2dc|cBcd A2cd|
e2ag gfed|1 B2cd e2fg|a4 baba:|2 B2g2 fedc|d6 c2||
|:B2cd dcBA|G2fe e2cA|FAce GBdf|B2gf fedc|
dcdf A2gf|eaga f2ed|B2g2 fedc|1 d6 c2:|2 d6||
2
X: 2
T: Anna Foxe
R: hornpipe
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: Dmaj
de|:f2a2 d2cA|BdcB A2Bc|d4 e2de|f2af e2dc|cBcd A2cd|
e2ag gfed|1 B2gf e2f^g|a4 baba:|2 B2g2 fedc|d6 c2||
|:B2cd- dcBA|G2fe e2cA|FAce GBdf|Bdgf fedc|
dcdf A2gf|e2ag gfed|B2g2 fedc|1 d6 c2:|2 d6||
3
X: 3
T: Anna Foxe
R: hornpipe
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: Dmaj
a4|:f2a2 d2cA|BdcB A2Bc|d2cd e2de|f2ga e2dc|cBcd dAcd|
e2ag gfed|1 B2gf e2f^g|a4 b3a:|2 B2g2 fedc|d6 dc||
|:B3c dcBA|G2fe edcA|FAce GBdf|Bdgf fedc|
dcdf A2gf|eaga f2ed|B2g2 fedc|1 d6 dc:|2 d4||

Twenty comments

Re: Anna Foxe

I forgot to add that another member of thesession helped me a lot for the transcription of this tune: DonaldK. Thanks Donald!!!!

Re: Anna Foxe

Once again, a "Planxty" is definitely not a tune category.
Thanks for the tune.

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Re: Anna Foxe

I resisted saying that! I don’t know what it is that you are not grasping Fernando. A Planxty (which I rightly or wrongly believe to be a tribute to somebody;- normally a patron to the musician) could be in 3/4 time or 4/4 time whatever…. It is NOT in itself a tune category. Therefore, it may be correct for you to call it a planxty though as a tune type it’s still a hornpipe.. Yeah, and thanks indeed for the tune, it’s great!

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Re: Anna Foxe

To butt in here, I think it may have been Josephine Marsh who called the tune a planxty. A "planxty" may well not be a type of dance tune but if this tune is a dedication (which it seems to be, given the name) and if Josephine Marsh, someone at the centre of a living tradition (rather than an internet observer of it), calls it a planxty then that is ok by me.

See this comment by Rover: https://thesession.org/discussions/46489#comment929936. It might well be the case that Rover got the planxty term from the sleeve notes of Music in the Frame.

See also this comment by banjobongo: https://thesession.org/discussions/44587#comment891489.

Finally, from this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Oap0WKRj6U from TG4 we have:

"Gradam Ceoil TG4 2020 - An Spideóg (Planxty 0:00) & Phyllis’ Birthday (Reel 2:29) performed by the Josephine Marsh Band led by TG4 Composer of the Year Josephine Marsh."

Re: Anna Foxe

I should add that what Fernando has posted is his own setting of the tuned informed by, but not identical to, the setting of Mareka Naito.
A couple of days ago Fernando sent me a clip of him playing the tune on harmonica (in C). Within an hour of picking up the clip I sent him one back of me playing the tune on guitar. At that point I knew nothing about it but thought it sounded O’Carolanish.

After various back and forth messages I got the title, composer and YouTube links. I transcribed the two versions available there, by Mareka Naito and Elaine Hogan, yesterday morning and sent a score to Fernando. He had missed the G# at the turn of the first part, I assumed because he didn’t have the equivalent note on the harmonica. But it turns out he just missed it and, because he’s used to the sound of Gnat there that is what he has gone with (and I confess I think it sounded fine when he played - there was a kind of "ooh" moment when I listened on YouTube).
Anyway, Fernando said I should post my transcriptions so these will be X:2 and X:3.

Anna Foxe, X:2

As played by Mareka Naito in the clip linked to by Fernando above. Note the syncopation at the start of the second part.

Anna Foxe, X:3

As played by Elaine Hogan here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCI87taQXBc

Note that at the repeat of the first part she plays f3a d2 rather than f2a2 d2. I would normally show that on an oasis stave but I don’t know how to do that here and didn’t want to have the repeat sign at the start of the second full bar.

Re: Anna Foxe

And I would have to say, Anna Foxe doesn’t sound hornpipey to me.

Re: Anna Foxe

For accompanying chords, avoiding chromatics, you could do something like:
|:D |G D|Bm A/C#|D A|G D/F#|A Bm|[1G E|A :|[2Em A|D ||
|:G |Em A|F#m G|Em A|D |Em-A Bm |Em A |[1D :|[2D A||

Junji Shirota does a |G E/G#|A move at the turn of the first part and and F#7 into the second part starting on a Bm chord. He also does a |A A#dim Bm A| in the sixth bar of the second part. (Although he’s in drop D with a capo on 2 so he’s effectively playing in C rather than D.)

Re: Anna Foxe

For "oasis stave" read "ossia stave".
Spellcheck thingy got me again.

Re: Anna Foxe

Thanks for those settings Donald!

As for the use of the word planxty as a tune category: this is quite simple, there are different opinions here. I love the use of this word to call this type of tune and I will continue to use it as long as I see I am not the only one doing it.

Same name for tunes with different rhythms? That sounds familiar… ah, yes, set dances!!!!

I like this type of tune too much, It deserves a proper category aside from the rest.

Re: Anna Foxe

So, just wandering Fernando,… if you hear a tune and not know the name it’s been given, how do you identify it as a planxty? What is it that distinguishes a planxty to the listener and/or musician that makes it deserving of a category of it’s own? What musical form does a planxty have?
I’m not arguing that the tune here isn’t CALLED a planxty (by the composer), but to me it’s just in the name!
As for set dances, well as Kenny said in a previous thread, "You would only call it a set dance if there was a specific dance to go along with it". That’s a matter for the dancers. I could play a commonly acceptable set dance tune without sticking to the formal structure and although the tune type would remain the same, it would not then be a set dance, just a dance tune.

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Re: Anna Foxe

Thanks, Gobby. You’re right. Asking which feature(s) one could objectively observe in a tune is the right approach.
Furthermore, it’s not because one likes the use of a word that it is good and right to use it for unappropriate things. I do like jigs, I do like fugues, hornpipes, sonatas, allemandes, sarabandes, waltzes, etc., etc. That doesn’t give me the right to use these terms for other kinds of musical pieces.
Fernando, would you agree with the fact that someone would use the term "charrada" for another type of (Spanish) dance, just because he/she likes it ? …
Buenas noches !

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Re: Anna Foxe

Gobby => the tunes under the category of planxty can be recognised in the same way O’Carolan tunes are recognised. Baroque style of tune but with Irish flavour. It really stands out, even for people not familiar with Irish Traditional Music. What are the rules to recognise them? I don’t know them really but I’m sure you know what I mean.

It is confirmed, Josephine Marsh says the tune is a planxty, and that is the type of tune, it is not the name. The tune is called Anna Foxe, not Planxty Anne Foxe.

And for the set dances: what if someone composes one of them and nobody dances to it? That is something similar to the O’Carolan tunes. With the difference that O’Carolan have the name of the composer. If more tunes of that style are composed now we cannot call them O’Carolanish, O’Carolantic, O’Carolalaland, etc. (or maybe yes haha).

The thing is that these planxties are for sure a different story from the other types of tunes in Irish Traditional Music.

Moxhe => thanks amigo, I like to see the word charrada in your comment and the Spanish that you wrote. I said I liked the word planxty yes, but even if another word was chosen for these tunes I would like it too. The thing is that these new compositions of tunes in the same style of O’Carolan tunes must have a category. Planxty is already in use and I strongly support it.


Ok, if that is ok for you both, I am going to start a discussion with this. For these two reasons:

- I would love to know the opinion of more members of thesession.

- Time will tell if these tunes are finally called "planxty" and then we will have a great time reading our comments haha.

Re: Anna Foxe

Re:- "the tunes under the category of planxty can be recognised in the same way O’Carolan tunes are recognised. Baroque style of tune but with Irish flavour. It really stands out, even for people not familiar with Irish Traditional Music. What are the rules to recognise them? I don’t know them really but I’m sure you know what I mean."
Sorry Fernando but I think we must just agree to disagree. I really DO NOT know what you mean. I’m very familiar with Irish traditional music but I personally couldn’t recognise a contemporary tune as a planxty unless the composer had named it as one. And I personally can’t hear anything really O’Carolanish in this particular tune. Maybe it depends on how it gets played, but then (my point is) how you play it would not in itself make it a planxty. That this tune is called ‘Anna Foxe’ and not ‘Planxty Anne Foxe’ adds up to both the same thing and to nothing, because it still doesn’t define what is meant by the word ‘planxty’. That Josephine Marsh labels it a planxty after the title makes no difference. That does not indicate that it’s a tune type.
You say a planxty is a tune type while I believe it to just mean that it’s a ‘tribute to’ ….(then fill in the name). O’Caloran, after all, composed these tunes as a tribute to his wealthy patrons (were all O’Caloran tunes planxtys by the way?? I honestly don’t know!).
I do have to be honest and say that I wouldn’t claim to know with certainty what a planxty is. I don’t think anybody could claim that. While I believe the general consensus that it probably refers to a tribute tune, I don’t think there is any proven 100% certainty about the meaning of the word. All I can rest my own case on is that somebody would have to prove to me that a planxty is a tune type by telling me what musical structure makes it a planxty tune. I am always open to education. This debate should perhaps be in the discussions section (though I feel I have nothing further to add). Cheers.

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Re: Anna Foxe

Perhaps we should all just re-visit this old discussion, take two asprins with a glass of water or maybe a few drams of whiskey, and then forget it:- https://thesession.org/discussions/1970
A tune can be whatever you imagine it to be.

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Re: Anna Foxe

I must add after just reading through that old thread again that it seems to me that we didn’t seem to take ourselves so seriously back then. It’s actually a good laugh!

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Re: Anna Foxe

I didn’t have a look at that old thread Gobby, it is really long and go so much into detail with the origin of the word planxty haha

For me the biggest laugh was that tune that is only silent notes, that was so good, the comments there are just wonderful 😂😂

When I saw that I published a tune called Roll And Roll that was all rolls in D. And then I started putting alternative names like crazy using well known tunes names but inserting the word "roll" in them. I even added the paw patrol in a roll hahaha

I am beginning to think that maybe it is a mistake of mine this thing about planxty as a type of tune. Nobody in that long thread seems to treat the word like this.

Re: Anna Foxe

Can I just clarify Fernando, that I have no argument against any tune being called a planxty if that’s what the composer calls it. On that basis you were correct to call this tune and the previous one a planxty. My objection was that for both those tunes you wrote, "This is not a hornpipe, it is a planxty"… I probably would have made myself clearer if I had said that my objection isn’t against the word ‘planxty’, rather against the word ‘NOT’, i.e, - the two classifications are not mutually exclusive. A tune can be both. We just don’t have a separate tune category for planxty’s on this site for similar reason’s that we don’t have one for airs. Personally I’m strongly against the over categorisation of lots of things in life. To me most things posses their own uniqueness that we are too easily blinded to, but I can’t think of a better way that the tune submission catagories could work on this site. That’s probably why we resort to discussions like this one.

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