John Doherty’s reel

This tune is unique!! It is the only reel I know with nine bars in the first part.

Unique, eh? It won’t be for much longer if Mark gets his head round the problem!
Trevor

This is a great favourite of bb’s. I think rather than transcribing it all in 4/4, the 2nd bar needs to be in 3/2 for the structure of the tune to make sense, otherwise the phrases start halfway through the bar. Do a search at JC’s tune index to find a transcription like this.

Thank you, thank you!! Only 10,432 and a half more tunes to learn…. Now, has anyone transcribed a reel played by Joe McKenna that he calls “Rowsome’s” and puts before Ballintore Fancy?

A slightly different setting:

M:4/4
K:Ador
EAAB cABd| M:3/2 cAGA G3F GAGD| M:4/4 EAAB cABd|1 cABG A3G:|2 cABG A2||
^cd|efe^c d2cd|efe^c d2cd|efe^c BdcB|^cABG A2^cd|
efe^c d2cd|efe^c d2cd|eage dfed|cABG A3G||

I can’t guarantee its authenticity, but it is as I have remembered it from a Lunasa recording (which I don’t own) and a guitarist from Dublin (who probably learnt it from the said Lunasa recording).

Peter, where did you get your version from? Is it as John Doherty played it?

Re above abc: ABC2WIN has trouble handling time signature changes mid-tune. It may be necessary to add in L:1/8 after each time change to get it to display the right note values.

Apparently this tune can be found as No. 295 on O’Neill’s “Waifs and Strays”. Don’t know if it has that extra half-bar or how it’s notated if so.

i leave out the 9th bar in the 1st part if you don’t it feels like one too many (to my ears)

I’m not sure what versions people are familiar with, but the one played by Paddy Glackin on ‘In Full Spate’ certainly doesn’t require a change of time signature or the dropping of any bars (see below). I think people may have been misled by the off-beat motif in the first part (which is, after all, the main attraction of this tune). Note 2nd part is in Amix.

K: ADor
EAAB cABd|cABA (3GGG GF|GAGD EAAB|cABd cABG|
ABAG EAAB|cABd cABA|(3GGG GF GAGD|EAAB cABd|cABG A2^cd|
K: AMix
efec (3ddd cd|efec ~d2cd|efec daed|cABG (3ABA cd|
efec (3ddd cd|efec ~d2cd|eage dged|=cAdB =cAAG||

ps: I reckon whoever wrote this tune (and it may or may not have been John Doherty) threw in those magical four extra notes after the first two bars with the express intention of causing a bit of havoc on the dance floor. When folded in to a set this tune would leave the best dancers quite literally reelin!

Don’t think so. What would be the point in that?

This is the tune you play when some dancer keeps calling out “can’t you guys play any faster?” Try it some day and you’ll see what happens. It’s also good for discouraging unwanted bodhran players.

who wrote this tune?

Here’s the ABC of the tune with the proper bar structure

T:John Doherty’s
R:reel
D:Paddy Glackin: In Full Spate
Z:id:hn-reel-575
Z:transcribed by henrik.norbeck@mailbox.swipnet.se
M:C|
K:Ador
% TUNEdb Number 1137
EAAB cABd|
M:3/2
cABA ~G3F GAGD|
M:C|
EAAB cABd|1 cABG A2AG:|2 cABG A2 ^cd||
|:efe^c d2cd|efe^c d2cd|1 efe^c d2ed|^cABG A2^cd:|2 eage dged|=cAdB cAAG||

If your looking for the proper sheet-music transcription for this tune as it should be notated beat-wise check out this link

http://tunedb.woodenflute.com/tunedb/tune_details_results.html?tune_id=1260&tune_name=John%20Doherty%27s

The second tune down is a pretty accurate version of it as taken from Paddy Glackin’s ‘In Full Spate’ album. I saw Lunasa play this once and they said they got it from Glackin, I first heard it from him too.

Just to correct granama who I think is referring to me where he says “I can’t guarantee its authenticity, but it is as I have remembered it from a Lunasa recording (which I don’t own) and a guitarist from Dublin (who probably learnt it from the said Lunasa recording).” Sorry to be pedantic granama but I’ve never learnt any tune from a Lunasa recording and probably never will!!!

Some other tunes with odd beats include

The Silver Slipper as recorded by Altan and others,

Con Cassidy’s version of My Love Is In America, as recorded by Con and also Paul O’Shaughnessy

Top it Off as recorded by Tommy Potts and also Paddy Glackin and Danú.

Larry Redican’s (aka The Galway Reel) is notated in 4/4 but in actuality it has some other rhythmic stress in the middle of the first part which throws it off a strict 4/4 beat.

There’s a Mazurka Altan recorded which has a funny beat pattern too.

The Guns of The Magnificent Seven by Fintan McManus

There’s a march version of The Chuilfionn as recorded by Paul O’Shaughnessy and Harry Bradley

https://thesession.org/tunes/5203

Almost any Set Dance has an odd beat structure

There are many more examples of tunes that have odd beats, so if you want to throw someone rhythmically play some of these tunes!!

I haven’t submitted links for notations of most of these tunes cos most of them are notated wrong. Best to learn them from recordings or someone good who knows them.

I found this one on the web: http://www.norbeck.nu/abc/index2.asp?cat=i&sort=title&first=J

Is this the one Altan plays in sets?
X:575
T:John Doherty’s
R:reel
D:Paddy Glackin: In Full Spate
Z:id:hn-reel-575
M:C|
K:Ador
EAAB cABd|
M:3/2
cABA ~G3F GAGD|
M:C|
EAAB cABd|1 cABG A2AG:|2 cABG A2 ^cd||
|:efe^c d2cd|efe^c d2cd|1 efe^c d2ed|^cABG A2^cd:|2 eage dged|=cAdB cAAG||

Can anyone tell me exactly which Altan recording this tune is on and what they call it etc.?

I don’t think they did ever record this, Jack. Pretty sure not in the days of Frankie. Might be on “Runaway Sunday” or possibly “Blackwater”. I’ll go back and have a listen to some of their CDs - they certainly recorded quite a few tunes under Johnny Doherty’s name. The only musician I’ve heard playing this reel - as mentioned above - is Paddy Glackin, but some other Donegal musicians might have recorded it.

Can’t find it on any of their recordings I have, Jack, and that’s most of them. Not “Runaway Sunday”,“Another Sky”, “Blackwater” or “Blue Idol”, and without checking, I’m pretty sure not on the early recordings.

Thanks, Kenny, I found it on a Lunasa recording. Someone told me Altan recorded it, but maybe they were thinking Lunasa.

Think that must be the case, Jack. I did remember one other recording of this reel. It’s the very first tune on Tony McManus’ 1st CD - he calls it “Doherty’s”, and his source was Paddy Glackin.

I got here after listening to Altan’s version on the Blackwater album. It was the last tune of a 3 tune set, preceded by Jenny Picking Cockles and Farewell to Leitrim. However, their version is very different from the notations I find here and on other sites.

You’re quite wrong “barrangatan”. The only thing this particular reel has in common with the 3rd reel in the set by “Altan” which you mention is that they are both named after John Doherty. They are not “versions” of the same tune, they are 2 completely different tunes.

The JD tune on Blackwater is a version of Sporting Paddy https://thesession.org/tunes/430. Look in the comments section for that tune and you’ll find a transcription of the version you’re looking for posted by me back in 2005.

X: 1
T: John Doherty’s
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
R: reel
K: Ador
| M:3/2 EAAB cABd cAGA | G3F GAGD| M:4/4 EAAB cABd|1 cABG ABAG:|2 cABG A2||
(3B^cd|~e3^c d2(3B^cd|efe^c d2(3B^cd|~e3^c dged|cABG A2 (3B^cd|
~e3^c d2(3B^cd|efe^c d2(3B^cd|eage dged|cABd cAAG||

‘this reel is unique’ Peter Piper…
Yes it pretty much is (and I hope no Mark or Trevor body will ‘fix it’) but odd beat or odd bar reels are common place on the other side of the main, albeit in the French speaking lands there.
Compare Reel à Cédulie and Reel à Célina for instance at: http://www.mustrad.udenap.org/bios/boudreault_louis.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSwJ21_OxyE

play video

I find it easier to memorize it like this:

X: 1
T: John Doherty’s
R: reel
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: Ador
EAAB cABd|cABA G2GF|M: 2/4 GABG|M: 4/4 EAAB cABd|cABG EAAG|
EAAB|cABd|cABA G2GF|M: 2/4 GABG|M: 4/4 EAAB cABd|cABG EAA^c|
|eee^c d2cd|efe^c d2cd|eee^c dfed|^cABG A2cd|
eee^c d2cd|efe^c d2cd|eage d=fed|cABd cABG||

For the “Phantom Button” [ if he still frequents these parts…..]. “Altan” have included this reel in an arrangement of the song “Gypsy Davy”, on the CD “The Widening Gyre”, released earlier this year - see comments :

https://thesession.org/recordings/4849

The fiddler, Alex Sutherland (1873-1967) of Toome, Drumreilly, Co Leitrim submitted a version of this rare tune to the National Folklore Commission in 1957 entitled “The Girl in Danger” in the higher key of D with the parts reversed.

Cheers, Kenny! That’s what I wanted.

From the playing of Altan.