Jerry Daly’s (hornpipe) on The Session

If I’m not mistaken, this is a version or evolution of a hornpipe called Tomgraney Castle or Loch Leven Castle a version of which is in O’Neill’s. I’ve always thought it was a Scottish tune, anybody know?

Sounds like what I know as Tuamgrainey Castle as well…

Tomgraney Castle

There is a Scottish country dance called Loch Leven Castle and this is the tune that is generally played for it. It’s in the RSCDS book 21. In my copy of Kerr’s Caledonian it’s in the Irish and Scottish Reels section, and in Fiddler’s Fake Book it’s just listed as British Isles.

cj

Seanbhean Bhocht (hornpipe) by Moving Cloud

Moving Cloud recorded a version of this tune very close to this one, but with all the Cs natural ( in Ador ).

Loch Leven Castle / Tomgraney

I was over in Skye in October and had a chance to meet Dr Angus McDonald who is an excellent piper and now also very good fiddler. He had a few antique Scottish tune books and I’m 99% sure I sung this tune in my head from one of these old books (under a different title though) because I had just learnt the tune.

I would be very surprised if this Jerry Daly tune is not closely related to tomgraney, and is, I’ve discovered, compared with it on the Irishtune info website. There are a few differences in the melody, but they can vary to become pretty close to tomgraney depending on which version you look at. The opposite is also the case in different versions of tomgraney. As for the key, I’ve heard Tomgraney played both mixy, and dori, and this tune, as Gian Marco pointed out, is also played in both keys.

It seems, therefore, that Jerry Daly’s has been evolving away from Tomgraney, but I’d be keen to find out if anyone has anymore information as to whether this tune, or Tomgraney’s is Scottish or Irish in origin.

I am going on gut feeling, but I think Loch Leven Castle is of Scottish origin, and Tomgraney or Tuamgraine Castle is an Irish variant of it (Tuamgraine being in East Clare). The common scottish setting has certan features which sound atypical of Irish tunes, whilst the Irish variant sounds (as is often the case with Scottish tunes which have been absorbed into the Irish tradition) as if it has had the bumps smoothed out.

But, given extensive migration of peoples between Ireland and Scotland since time immemorial, who can say where a tune really originated?

Seanbhean Bhocht / Loch Leven Castle / Tomgraney

I used to think this tune was called the ‘shan van vocht’ (and there are other tunes called like that indeed)
I must try and find out if it’s the Moving Cloud version I first heard… here is my story with that tune:
I first heard it on a messy tape on which my father recorded scraps and bits of radio programs. I ‘stole’ that tape from him later, when I was about 14: it was -and is- such a haunting, self-sufficient, nicely introverted tune; you could play it over and over again in a long loop…
This feeling I have for it was probably shaped by that first simple and effective interpretation I heard; a hypnotic, understated plinck plunck accompaniement on the guitar for a breathy, thoughtful tune on the flute:
-Any guess whom the duet might have been? (probably from an LP published c.1980… or before) does this correspond to the MovingCloud description?
This tune had such a hold on me that I resolved to buy a flute to play it on! My first steps in Irish music! So I went to the local music shop and asked for a ‘flûte irlandaise’ and I got what I thought was one: but they sold me a ‘flagelolet’ (that means a ‘bean’ in French) also known as ‘flûte irlandaise’!… -for that’ s what they call a ‘tinwhistle’ in France (the British Made ‘Generation’ type)- Well, I had a bit of a shock when I realised, back home, trying to play along with the tape, that the sound wasn’t deep and woody at all, not atmospheric at all! But the best part of the story is that I couldn’ t figure out how the player could get such sweet sounds out of his himself! I knew only one other kind of flute: the silver kind and I was totally baffled cause I had ruled out that option too and could see no other solution! These were my very first steps and I was young and green indeed! My playing hasn’t improved a great deal since (not as m. as I ‘d like it anyway) but i’m a little bit more clued in! that’sall!

I used to think this tune was called the ‘shan van vocht’ (as well as other HP and songs of that name) ? -Anyone?
But this could be because I first heard it on a messy tape on which my father recorded scraps and bits of radio programs: the name probably belonged to a tune my da had taped over or missed!
Anyhow, i’m glad to ‘meet’ it here again, it is such a haunting, self-sufficient, nicely introverted tune; you could play it over and over again in a long loop…
This feeling I have for it was probably shaped by that first simple and effective interpretation I heard; an hypnotic, understated plinck plunck on a guitar (!) accompanying a tuneful, thoughtful, breathy flute:
-Any guess whom this duet might have been? (probably from an LP published c.1980… or before)
This tune had such a hold on me that it was what decided me to buy my first instrument: a ‘flûte irlandaise’, of course! the sweetest instrument in the world! So I went to the local music shop and got what I thought was one: but they sold me a ‘flagelolet’ instead -for that’ s what they call ‘tinwhistles’ in France (the British Made ‘Generation’ type) (that means a ‘bean’!)- Well, I had a bit of a shock when I realised, back home, trying to play on top of the tune, that the sound wasn’t deep and woody at all, not atmospheric at all! But the best part of the story is that I couldn’ t figure out how the player could get such sweet sounds out of his! I knew only one other kind of flute: the silver kind and I was totally baffled cause I had ruled out that option too and could see no other solution! These were the very first steps and I was young and green! My playing hasn’t improved a great deal since (not as m. as I ‘d like it anyway) but i’m a little bit more clued in!

Go here for a dorian version https://thesession.org/tunes/1927

FWIW, on "Moving Cloud", the liner notes reference the tune being on the Dan Sullivan Shamrock Band recording. They also note that the version they play on the album is from Allan’s "The Irish Fiddler" collection (published in 1930 according to Amazon.com). I wasn’t familiar with this collection, so after searching around out of curiosity, here is what I found:

http://www.accordionsoflondon.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypagemus&product_id=114&category_id=12&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26

Just did a little more digging around and found this page: http://www.oldmusicproject.com/allans.html

From there, check out http://www.oldmusicproject.com/AAAllans/GIF/090-ShanVanVocht.gif for the sheet music of this tune. Although it was transcribed in 2002 according to the site, it appears to have been transcribed directly from the book.

The Bird’s

Another duplicate, with reverse parts order : https://thesession.org/tunes/11306

X: 3 ~ "The Bird’s Hornpipe" ~ also not reversed

Terry Teahan played it in the same order as given here and you’ll also find that transcription following the previous link, tune #11306… I’ve added this transcript for comparison, showing both the shared A-part and the differences betweem the B-parts of each take…

X: 4 ~ "The Bird’s Hornpipe" ~ Correction

😏 How did that happen? 😀

X: 5 ~ "The Shan Van Vocht"

"Allan’s Irish Fiddler", Mozart Allan, Glasgow, 1930s
Page 23, tune #90

An TSeanbhean Bhocht
https://thesession.org/tunes/1599
X:1

Is the three parts piper version as played i.e. by Liam O’Flynn and Paddy Maloney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrLqdpKXE3c&t=1m31s

play video

Jerry Daly’s hornpipe

Five settings

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