Maggie Pickins strathspey

Could be Picken a Chicken!?
I feel this is more a schottishe than a Hornpipe and I have been playing this in a set along with a tune which I believe to be ‘Lord Moira’ and ‘Follow me down to Carlow’. The latter being different to the same named tune submitted to the session 17th may 2002. I will submit my version of FMDTC in a few days time.
The ‘A’ music of Maggie Pickens is identical with the ‘A’ music of TWCITS (submitted May 14th 2004) but the ‘B’ music is totally different except for the last two bars.
Hope it’s liked.

It’s a nice tune, but why all the dotted notes? It makes it sound more like a slide than a hornpipe. I’ve done a lot of listening to the way hornpipes are being played and recorded in Ireland and I never hear them played with dotted notes like this. Sometimes there will be a slight swing, but never so extreme that dotted notes are necessary.

I posted “The Whole Chicken In The Soup” a few days ago.This is almost the same tune.

Because that’s how I play it. Note that I liken it to a Schottishe.
I am aware that many of the Hornpipes here on the session and in published manuscript are written without dots but are they played flat like reels? I do not think so. How do you measure a slight swing? At least with the dots there you know that ‘swing?’ is needed for the purpose that I use the tune.

I have just uncovered a recording of this tune on an LP produced in 1975 by The Rakes (a London based ceilidh band formed in the late 50’s and influenced by Irish music played in pubs in Cambden Town and other places and by their contact with Michael Gorman, Sligo fiddle player)
This is labelled as a Schottishe and is played alongside a tune called Ma McNulty’s which I also know as ‘Follow me Down to Carlow’ also labelled as a Schottishe.

Again, as I’ve been told to do so, “how I would play it”, and with that ‘swing’ classic to the form. This one has the usual 16 bars and the defined second ending for the B part of the melody. As well in the North there was and is also a specific solo dance also danced to this tune, stepping, and carrying the same name - ‘Maggie Pickins’, and lyrics too. This stepping could also be done in pairs, dancer facing dancer…

And a 2-bar second ending for the B-part…

T: ? - ? - ?
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
R: march
K: Gmaj
|: B/A/ |
GE DE GA B2 | cB/A/ BA GE D2 | G>E DE GA Be | de/f/ gB AG G :|
| e |
de/f/ gf ed g2 | de/f/ gB AG E2 | de/g/ gf e/f/e/d/ gG | G>A BG AG G2 |
g/a/g/f/ gf ed B2 | de/f/ gB AG E2 | G>E DE GA Be | de/f/ gB AG G ||

The last note of the 3rd last bar should be A not e. Apologies for getting it wrong when I posted the tune. And of course there should be a double bar at the end. The ABC file is now correct, but the sheetmusic and midi files can’t now be amended.

Key signature: A Major
Submitted on August 29th 2003 by dafydd.
https://thesession.org/tunes/3007

This is the same A-Part, different take on the B-Part, but the one I am most familiar with… This is also as it is used for a step dance by the same name…

Key signature: G Major
Submitted on May 20th 2004 by hetty.
https://thesession.org/tunes/3041

Hetty’s contribution has an identical Part-A with a different take on Part-B… Hetty does not say where he got this one originally, which makes me wonder if it is an English take on this once very popular and widespread tune.

Dafydd’s take on this old gem is the closest to how I know it. This tune is also used for a step dance of the same name, not the “Chicken”, but “Maggie Pickins” in it’s many spellings and pronunciations… I didn’t get enough time with the steps to master them, so I’ve still got that to do… 😉

i am also from leicester and i played this in carmel burkes group cheol last year…in fact this year to. i wonder if i no your son?

R: highland fling
K: A Major
|: z>B |
A>FE>F A>Bc>e | e>cB>A B>AF>A | A>FE>F A>Bc<e | e>c (3BcB A2- :|
|: A>e |
(3fae f>e a2 g>f | e>c (3cBA B>A F2 |1 (3fae f>a a2 g>f | e>c (3cBA B2 :|
2 A>FE>F A>B c2 | e>c (3cBA B2 A ||

K: G Major
|: B<A |
G>ED>E G>A B2 | d>B (3ABG A>GE>A | G>ED>E G>AB>e | d>B (3ABA G2- :|
|: G>d |
(3egd ed g2 fe | dBAG AG E2 |1 (3egd ed g3 e | dB (3ABG A2 :|
2 G>ED>E G>AB>e | d>B (3ABA G2 ||

This comes from Lucy Farr’s fiddle playing, so it’s another East Galway tune.

Key signature: A Major
Submitted on August 29th 2003 by dafydd.
https://thesession.org/tunes/2051

Key signature: A Major
Submitted on August 29th 2003 by dafydd.
https://thesession.org/tunes/2051

Some sources to be skeptical of have it that “Maggie” came before the “Whistle”, but then that would be the case anyway wouldn’t it?! 😉

Same as https://thesession.org/tunes/3441 (“Chaming Lovely Nancy”) from Verena Commins and Julie Langan’s recording Fonnchaoi. That title is from a song to this air sung by Dennis Murphy.

The tune is a Munster setting of the tune called “Maggie Pickens” in the north. Settings are in the Roche collection (“The Hen and All Her Broth”) and Breathnach’s CCE No. 2 (“An Chearc ar fad is an tAnraith,” which has been rendered “The Whole Chicken in the Soup”)

“The Hen and all Her Brood”…

Wild that gian notated it as a ‘slide’, not the first time someone’s gone that route with swing. Sometimes the sway takes folks minds that way, sometimes it goes flat and becomes a reel…and sometimes the swing can even be pulled into a waltz…

Key signature: G Major
Submitted on August 25th 2004 by gian marco.
https://thesession.org/tunes/3441

Here’s it done nicely by Kevin Burke

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bLcJCHSLb4

play video

Lucy picked up her tunes from all sorts of places, not limited to East Galway or Ireland…

This one also has at least one other and older title to it, but I haven’t yet managed to dig it up…

X: 2
T: Whole Chicken in the Soup, The
S: “Kevin Burke & Mícheál Ó Domhnaill: Promenade”, track 7
M: 12/8
L: 1/8
R: strathspey / highland fling
K: Gmaj
|: G>ED>E G>A B2 | (3cBA B>G A>G (3EDE |
G>ED>E G>AB>d | d>B (3ABA G2 G2 :|
(3efg d>B c>ed>d | d>B A>G E>A (3ABA |
(3efg d>B c>ed>d | d>B (3ABA G2 G2 |
(3efg d>B c>ed>d | d>B A>G E>A (3ABA |
G>ED>E G>AB>d | d>B (3ABA G2 G2 |]

I hope this is the right thing to do…
I just found Lucy’s Fling, and it is noted that there is another title to it. From looking at the notes, it appears to be the same as Maggie Pickens. I am not sure hopw useful this information is, but you never know.

Yes, it was found and has already been given as an alternate title. Only the person who originally submitted the transcription can actually edit it… Alternate titles, whatever their provenance, are usually given in the ‘details’ for a tune, and comment sometimes added…

Submitted on August 28th 2005 by Lissagriffin.
https://thesession.org/tunes/4904

Maggie Pickens ~ in G
Submitted on May 20th 2004 by hetty.
https://thesession.org/tunes/3041

Submitted on May 20th 2004 by hetty.
https://thesession.org/tunes/3041

Having forgotten to add this link…

More can be found here at Andrew Kuntz’s “The Fiddler’s Companion”
http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/index.html
http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/MAE_MAIB.htm#MAGGIE_PICKENS/PICKIE/PIGGY

“The Whole Chicken In The Soup”
Submitted on August 29th 2003 by dafydd.
https://thesession.org/tunes/3007

“Whistle O’er The Lave O’t”
Submitted on August 29th 2003 by dafydd.
https://thesession.org/tunes/2051/comments

Also related ~ “The Lea Rig / Rigges”

“The Whole Chicken In The Soup”
Submitted on August 29th 2003 by dafydd.
https://thesession.org/tunes/3007

“Whistle O’er The Lave O’t”
Submitted on August 29th 2003 by dafydd.
https://thesession.org/tunes/2051/comments

“Charming Lovely Nancy” ~ transcribed as a slide in G
Submitted on August 25th 2004 by gian marco.
https://thesession.org/tunes/3441

Submitted on August 25th 2004 by gian marco.
https://thesession.org/tunes/3441

Submitted on August 28th 2005 by Lissagriffin.
https://thesession.org/tunes/4904

Submitted on August 28th 2005 by Lissagriffin.
https://thesession.org/tunes/4904

Possibly this nameless tune? - starting at 4:20

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=vNYDsjZtcQA&a=fqfTAJJuUSE&playnext_from=ML

play video

As played by Terry Teahan on the 1977 LP “Old Time Irish Music in America”. The notes say, “terry learned this back in Kerry. Mick Howard was an old man who lived near Scartaglin. It is also played in Donegal where it is known as ”Maggie Pickin’s“.”


X:969
T:Mick Howard’s Polka
S:LP, Terry Teahan, Old Time Irish Music in America (1977)
Z:Nigel Gatherer
L:1/8
M:4/4
K:A
A>F E>F | A>B c2 | e>c B>A | FB Bc/B/ |
A>F E>F | A>B c2 | e>c Bc/B/ | A2 A2 :|
a>f e>f | a>f e>c | e>c B>A | FB Bc/B/ |
A>F E>F | A>B c2 | e>c Bc/B/ | A2 A2 :|

“Seamus Egan: Traditional Music of Ireland”
https://thesession.org/recordings/546
12. ) “Grandmom’s” / “Maggie Pickins”

Notes from the recording: “This is a tune which is special to us because it is one of only a few tune which we learned from our Grandmother. She was a melodeon player from Knock, Coounty Mayo. At one time it would not have been uncommon to hear this tune played at the house dances which were popular throughout Ireland, a tradition which, unfortunately, has been all but forgotten.”

This is an excellent example of how things can get mixed up and confused, reversing the parts and starting the low part on the second ending of the high part, consequently losing two bars of the music, 14 bars instead of 16, the high part being only 6 bars in length instead of the usual 8. Another usual direction of a highland fling like this is for it to become a reel, single or doubled, 16 bars or 32. I’ve ‘adjusted’ the transcription to the traditional 16 bars for the dance, but kept both transcriptions close to how the melody is taken by the Egans.

How they take it on the recording:

K: DMaj
d>cA>c d>cA>G | (3EFG F>E D>C A,2 |
d>cA>c d>cA>G | (3EFG F>E D2 D2 |
d>cA>c d>cA>G | (3EFG F>E D>C A,2 ||
|: D>CA,>C D>EF>G | A2 A>F E>D (3B,CB, |
D>CA,>C D>EF>G | A>F (3EFE D2 D2 :|

As already mentioned before, this is used to accompany a step dance by the same name, but it is also used for the highland fling in its many forms ~ 2 (couple), 3, & 4-hand… It’s closest relative would be the strathspey, but also noted above, the melody has also been used as a march. The types of dances associated with marches, highland flings, barndances, schottisches, and hornpipes all share similar basic steps and all have been at times called a ‘barndance’ (barn dance)…

see Grattan Flood, p156…..heard in 1756 in Co. Donagal, and printed on Oswald’s Caladoneon Collection in 1759. Stolen by the Scots for whistle o’re the lav o’t.

Fuxter, you might have a case, but quoting (the discredited) Grattan Flood isn’t the most authoritative way of going about it. “Whistle O’er the Lave O’t” is said to have been composed by John Bruce of Dumfries in about 1720, although that too has been disputed.

“Stolen by the Scots”!! What a line. Maybe you need to think differently about this kind of music Fuxter.

From a 1928 by recording by the Four Provinces Orchestra of Philadelphia.

Somewhat related to Some say the devil is dead
https://thesession.org/tunes/1990

“Allan’s Irish Fiddler” by Hugh McDermott; Mozart Allen, Glasgow - 1930s (possibly 1920s?)
page 29, tune #114 - with ‘corrections’ = converted from 2/4 to 4/4, the usual for this tune form, and adding repeats for the A-part, also usual for the form = 16 bars…
A note in the upper left of the Allan transcript: “Single Jig Time” - in other words, swung akin to a single jig…also not unusual for the form…
Also worth attention, the crotchet/quarter note ending in every bar, also classic to defining this dance form…

S: “Kevin Burke & Mícheál Ó Domhnaill: Promenade” - track 7

I’ve played this tune for years and known it as ‘Maggie Pickens’. I was surprised to have only just seen it here as a hornpipe. I have always played it as a slide (and I’ll stick to that).

While it can be fiercely swung, it definitely ain’t no slide…

Alright, mea culpa!, yes, you could push it that way, having given it that go, by instruments of music and by feet, but, in my sense of this particular melody, and having had a share of its history, several sources over time, me thinks some of its charm is lost in that translation… 😏

Whatever, it’s a great tune, and I’m not of course suggesting that it isn’t a hornpipe (who am I to doubt ceolachan?) I’ve just never heard it played as one, but then I don’t recall where I ever heard the tune in the first place. It was decades ago, before I even started to play the fiddle. Maybe I’ve converted it in my head. I’ll give it a new try.

Sorry… nobody actually suggested it was a hornpipe. It’s just how I was reading it. It’s a very versatile tune! Also, I don’t think I’ve ever heard a Scottish version of it. I am suddenly behind in my homework.

Repeating that ‘note’ from “Allan’s Irish Fiddler” - X: 2 above… Highlands/Flings, for which there’s no category here, could, were, and can be played for its dances with considerable swing. These, as too barndances and schottisches, have been transcribed from recordings by others as 12/8 and 6/8 time, examples include the collection “The Northern Fiddler”. Here’s a bit of Maggie given that treatment:

M: 12/8
K: A Major
|: A2 F E2 F A2 B c3 | A2 c e2 c B2 A F3 | - - -

The family and general historical connection for these, sometimes called a ‘Highland Schottische’, is the Strathspey… The dance may have its roots in The Carpathian Mountains and the dance crazes of the Austro-Hungarian Empire & Poland? - along with the polka, the mazurka & varsouvienne, the waltz, the German…etc…

Key signature: G Major
Submitted on August 25th 2004 by gian marco.
https://thesession.org/tunes/3441

Version by Kevin Burke & Micheal O’Domhnaill (Portland) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNskEEvGunI

play video