Mr. O’Connor waltz

The tune is No. 113 in "Carolan: The life times and music of an Irish harper" by Donal O’Sullivan, Ossian 2001. I have transposed it from Gminor to Eminor to make it playable on the whistle, since it was requested by Tyghress, who plays whistle I believe.

The first 3/4 section is feasible, although a couple of notes go below the whistle’s range. The jig section has even more such notes, but is heard I think more rarely.

I submitted it as jig and then changed the metre, because I couldn’t bear to call it a waltz. I find the list of tune types too restrictive, Jeremy!

I’m sorry you find the list of tune types restrictive, Brother Steve.

As I’ve explained before, I can’t add "O’Carolan composition" or "slow air" because these descriptions say nothing about the metre of the song.

The tune types that are used in The Session describe the *metre* of the song. So even if a tune isn’t strictly a jig but is in 6/8 time, then it should be submitted as a jig.

If you think there’s another category of tune type that should be listed, then please let me know the name of the category and what metre and notelength tunes in this category would have.

I understand that the type describes the metre, Jeremy. But here’s my problem - the first section of the tune is in 3/4, but to call it a waltz would have given people totally the wrong idea. It’s an air in 3/4 time, I suppose. Waltzes were invented in the 19th century, weren’t they? I’d suggest "3/4 - other". But please please not waltz.

If we are capable of writing out the ABC notation, surely we are capable of selecting the metre from a list?

Best
Steve

It’s like this: 99.9% of the time, there’s no reason to select a metre because it is implied by the tune type. To add another level of complication to the submission process for the 0.01% of tunes that have changing metres would be adding an unnecessary complication. I want to keep the submission process as simple as possible. If metre and tune type were seperated, I can guarantee you will see reels in 6/8 and slip jigs in 4/4 being submitted.

Besides, as it states on the front page of The Session: "This website is one way of passing on jigs, reels and other dance tunes."
Carolan compositions should really have their own website, I think.

Well I only posted this tune because a contributor asked for it. As it stands, it’s all wrong, so if can’t the sheetmusic can’t be fixed to display the tune properly (in 3/4) would you please remove it (and this discussion) entirely?

I accept what you about people posting in the wrong metre, but I would suggest that few real-life sessions never include tunes that are not dance tunes.

Here’s a thought - you might consider letting people enter what they want for the tune type, and make them select a metre from a list populated by entries such as:

2/4 (polkas, etc.)
3/4 (waltzes, etc.)
C| (reels)
6/8 (double jigs, etc.)
…
etc.

But - whatever. It’s of no great importance to me.

Regards,
Steve

Brother Steve, I have changed the sheetmusic. I changed the sheetmusic to read 3/4 almost as soon as I got your message.

I think you need to clear your internet cache and/or reload the page if you’re not seeing the change.

Would you still like me to delete the tune?

Ah - the dreaded cache! Thanks for the change, and sorry for all the trouble.

No, I don’t want you to delete the tune. If anyone asks, though, you called it a waltz, though, not me, OK? ;)

S

Thanks for the discussion years ago.
I first heard the tune known as Silabh Sneachta by Altan (CD: A Winter’s Tale Celtic Heartbeat) but couldn’t find the sheetmusic. Then I heard the same tune played by De Dannan named "Mr O’Connor".
Your discussion helped me easily to find the sheetmusic.
Jenny Pluck Pears (my band) will try to make her own arangement of it.

I think I make a mistake in my comment to say that Silabh Sneachta is the same tune. The type of the tune is simmilar not the tune by itself. Sorry for the wrong comment. Anyway : they are both lovely tunes 🙂)

Just noticed - 9 years after posting this, egad - that there is a mistake in the sheet music (not the abcs). The d at the start of the 16th bar is d2 - a minim or half-note - but is shown on the sheet and interpreted in the midi file as d (crotchet or quarter note).

Further to fiddlerdutch’s comments of 6 years ago I removed the alternative titles.

http://www.oldmusicproject.com/
includes this tune, fully referenced and in it’s original key :
http://www.oldmusicproject.com/AAOCC/Gif111-131/113A-MisterOConnorPartONE.gif
http://www.oldmusicproject.com/AAOCC/Gif111-131/113B-MisterOConnorPartTWO.gif
and many other Carolan tunes composed for the O’Connor clan

"It’s like this: 99.9% of the time, there’s no reason to select a metre because it is implied by the tune type."

The problem is the other way round - metre does not determine tune type.

I am never going to submit any 2/4 marches here because your system will insist they’re polkas.

Here is an adaptation for 2 DADGAD fingerstyle guitars (from De Dannan’s version)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iID1EGoQ7V0&list=PLLW8NeD2FYsZMRtDtzJ5QEHoCbmjDsGSn&feature=share&index=10

play video

You will have to wait 2.08 for the second guitar.
If you want to hear each guitar separately, you can start from here : https://soundcloud.com/jean-banwarth/mr-oconnor-ocarolan-jean-banwarth

First guitar on the right, second guitar on the left…

Jean

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htolggwtluE

play video

Jackie Daly and Alec Finn!

I found a version with the 6/8 part and I can see why it’s not commonly played, it doesn’t seem to go at all with the main tune.