Transcribed from the Chieftains "Water from the Well." It’s the first tune on the track titled "The Dusty Miller"; the liner notes say it is Ketch Called Sullivan John.
This is the first tune in the Set - "The Dusty Miller" - the "Sullivan John" tune is a reel.
I disagree. I think the the rhythm of it sounds more like a mazurka; or maybe the Chieftains play it with a mazurka rhythm. They mix tune types a good bit (jigs and reels, etc); I know they follow this tune with three reels, but I don’t agree that this tune is a reel.
Anyone else have an opinion?
I didn’t say this tune - ie the tune you have posted above - is a reel. This is the first tune in the set, "The Dusty Miller" and it is a 9/8 slip jig [ not a mazurka ]. "The Dusty Miller" is both the name of the set of tunes, and the name of the first tune in the set. It is followed by a reel which the Chieftains have listed on their sleeve notes as something like "The Ketch Named Sullivan John", about which I know nothing. The 3rd tune in the set is "Dowd’s No.9". Go look at the sleeve notes, go listen to the track on the CD. If I’m wrong, I’ll apologise.
The two parts of that tune have to be played without repeats.
Definitely the slip jig commonly known as "The Dusty Miller".
Sometimes Mazurkas souns as Slip Jigs, see https://thesession.org/tunes/1492
Slip Jigs sound as Mazurkas. ( I’m still sleeping.. )
OK, ordinarily I would know better than to question Longnote, but I must respectfully ask, what about this tune, listed as the Dusty Miller, slip jig, which sounds nothing like the tune I’ve posted?
Please, Mr. Longnote, keep the gloves on when you reply.
Everyone else, do your worst! You don’t frighten me! HA!
The “Water from the Well” liner notes
The "Water from the Well" liner notes say:
5. THE DUSTY MILLER
Trad. Arr.: Matt Molloy
The Ketch called "Sullivan John"/Dowd’s No. 9
The first version of "Dusty Miller," which is quite rare, was collected from colm O Caiodheain from Connemara Co. Galway by Seamus Ennis, an uilleann piper and folklorist. "Dowd’s No. 9" was named after john O’Dowd, an old Sligo fiddle master.
But this seems inaccurate, as I hear these tunes:
Sullivan John (or whatever it is), The disputed tune at hand
Hunter’s House (aka Ed Reavy’s to us Philadelphians)
But the liner notes don’t even mention Hunter’s House. The confusion for me comes in, as I assume it did for the fellow in the Discussion section who started all this, where it says The Ketch called "Sullivan John" is first, but then says the first version of "Dusty Miller" where I don’t hear a tune that sounds like a slip jig at all, let alone what I know to be the Dusty Miller. Oh, well, I guess I’m an idiot.
Anyway, as I’m an amature, I submit to the wiser voices here. Tell me what to change and I’ll change it.
P.S.: That’s a good link to "James Kelly’s", Gian Marco. Very interesting stuff there. I’ve never heard a slip jig played that way, but then, there’s a lot I’ve never heard…
Since I was the first to disagree with the given title, maybe I can answer . “The Fiddler’s Companion” website lists 8 different tunes called “The Dusty Miller”, and this is the 7th. This tune has been recorded under the title of “The Dusty Miller” by both “Cran” and “The House Band”, [ and come to that, the Chieftains, on "Water From The Well"]. I’m not sure of it’s origins.
The tune which Jeremy posted is a version of a tune which I think was originally Scottish, or possibly from the North-East of England, and there are words to it. I don’t know which came first, the dance tune or the song. Rod Paterson sings a version of it on “May You Never Lack A Scone”, the last recording by Edinburgh band “Jock Tamson’s Bairns”. Same tune – or as near as makes no difference - as Jeremy’s, it is No.6 in “The Fiddler’s Companion”.
I don’t know of any connection between the 2 tunes, but obviously “Dusty Millers” were ubiquitous.
This tune has nothing to do with Sullivan or a ketch. That was the title they gave to the first of the 3 reels. I would have to say that the sleeve notes for this track are not very clearly laid out , and that is probably what is causing the confusion.
The dusty miller
on ronan browne’s solo album (the wynd you know) also, second tune of track two. It is the dusty miller and it is a slip jig.
If this wasn’t written originally as a pipe tune or a march, it should have been. Tommy Keane does an excellent version of this, followed by the Silver Slipper (I think it was), then Willie’s Fling # 2. Brilliant. Lunasa has also done it as a pipe feature.
Dusty miller was originally a 3/2 hornpipe. See John of the Greeny Cheshire Way
Interesting, Alan. Thanks.
Here is a link directly to the book (scroll down to Dusty Miller).
I’m not much good at ‘hearing’ abc notation, (ok at the dots), - is the same tune?
How about this:
T: Dusty Miller
R: slip jig
|: A3 A2G A2G | A3 A2G B2d | A3 A2G A2G | BBB B2A B2d :|
|: A2D DDD A3 | A2D DDD B2d | A2D DDD G2A | B3 B2A B2d :|
On Whether or not this is a Mazurka
This really does not sound at all like any real, good, strong, Donegal Mazurka would sound.
I vote for a slippsh Jigish.
It’s neither mazurka nor slip jig, but a hop jig. ONE and TWO and THREE and ONE and TWO and THREE and….I’ve heard it played well by Eamonn Gallduff with another hop jig, a version of Cucanandy.
Don’t you know the same tune can be played as a slip jig or a hop jig?
“The Dusty Miller”
T: The Dusty Miller
R: slip jig
K: D Major
|: A2 A A2 G A2 D | A2 A A2 G B2 d |
ABA A2 G ADD | B2 G G2 A B2 d :|
|: A2 D DDG A2 d | A2 D DDG B2 d |
ADD A2 D G2 A | BGG G2 A B2 d :|
Chieftains settings- hop jig, three-two OR mazurka ( not slip-jig ;-).
Slainte’s comment made me wonder what the difference between a hop jig and slip jig was.. "Swing"?
In the Chieftains settings (second one is up-tempo), the on-beat notes 1-2-3 are’t held twice as long as the off-beat "+" notes.
In a slip jig, the long-short alternation would produce "the swing."
So my two-cent vote, at least of the Chieftains are playing — is for hop jig, mazurka, or three-two.
This may be the first hop jig setting for Dusty Miller on thesession.org..
T: Dusty Miller
W:hop jig - Chieftains settings
A2 AG AG | AA AG Bd | AA AG AG | BG ~G2 Bd :|
AD ~D2 Ad | AD ~D2 Bd | AD ~D2 GA | B2 BA Bd :|
A2 AG AD | A2 AG B/c/d | A2 AG AD | BG ~G2 Bd :|
AD ~D2 A2 | AD ~D2 Bd | AD ~D2 A2 | BG ~G2 Bd :|
Sounds like a hop jig to me!
Hop jigs are in 9/8 time with a very strong emphasis on the first beat and a have a sort of repetitive rhythm, like the ONE and TWO and THREE and, mentioned above. I wonder if they were some kind of aerobic dance used centuries ago, as Scottish flings were, to impress one’s enemies. The dance looks something like a cross between European clogging, as opposed to American clogging, and step dancing. Funny thing, though, I caught a youtube video of a hop jig done to O’Keefe’s slide. Curious!
"This really does not sound at all like any real, good, strong, Donegal Mazurka would sound."
Does this statement not seem odd to anyone else?
for similar ‘3/4 slip jigs’ have a look at the list in progress at: https://thesession.org/tunes/2579/comments
Hop jig ?
This tune, played bu Lunasa, for example, (tune #2 at 3:10)
sounds very much like a hop jig to me …
^ That’s because it is a hop jig, no bones about it.