Cold Frosty Morning reel

This tune comemerates the defeat of the jacobites at Culloden Moor in 1746. I’ve heard it played up-tempo as a dance tune but I think it really should be played as a lament.

We play this, and a rather upbeat version, at my local session. I thought this was an American old-timey tune that had somehow snuck into our mostly Irish session reportoire. This is a mildly different setting. That ascending A C D E pattern in the B part is mighty.

I could be wrong. I’m not completeley sure.

This is where I got the history:
http://www.hetzlersfakebook.com/NBCullodonmoor.html

A lovely tune and link… I can hear the Scotch in it (and the red spruce!). It would make a lovely march…

No!, stop that, I take it back, stop hitting me with that it smarts ~ you’ll regret it when you end up breakin’ it… 😏

Damn, some of you are ‘tender’… ‘SCOTCH’ is one of my drinks of choice, especially single malts from Islay…or was the ‘red spruce’ not enough of a hint? For those who choose to read it otherwise, please forgive my inclinations of madness, here it is rephrased for you:

I definitely get a sense of its Scottish roots… (Yes, of course there’s something else hiding in there ~ tubers… 😉 )

Very common tune at USA old time and Irish sessions… its a great tune slow or fast but trad. versions collected always are at dance tempo… The history behind the tune listed on the Hetzlers site is curious to me… Ive read it before and havent found that info anywhere else… I always wondered if Hetzler was linking the tune to the history behind Johnny Cope which there are some USA versions of that are similar to Frosty Morn. Also it wasnt uncommon to begin the tune with the high part first among older players in the upper south…

Also true of the dance scene in the 1800s, at dance tempo, a lot of marches were used in amongst everything else, especially for the ‘Polonaise’ / ‘Grand March’, which later evolved into the ‘Big Circle’ dances… Not just the Scottish, but they were amongst those that carried these traditions with them from Europe to the ‘New World’…bless them one and all…

Marches were also used for the ‘sets’ of quadrilles…

I agree with you "c"… it’s very "marchy". While you’re here, I’ve always wondered where the word "hornpipe" came from? Any idea?

Hey, I just answered this, what happened? ~ It went "POOF!"

Anyway, I’ve taken your question and started a ‘Discussion’ with it.

"Hornpipe" ~ way back when, and still in some places, the bell of a musical instrument or even the whole instrument could be made from horn ~ so a ‘woodwind’, the family, and as usual of a ‘pipe’ nature, and made from horn. There are good examples in ‘The Horniman Museum’ in London ~ HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!!!

http://www.horniman.ac.uk/
CURRENT EXHIBITION!!!
http://www.horniman.ac.uk/exhibitions/current_exhibition.php?exhib_id=29
MUSIC COLLECTIONS
http://www.horniman.ac.uk/music/music/music_homepage.html

This alone is enough to make me wish I lived in or closer to London… 🙁

On the first part last bars try…

gedB ABAG| A4A4:|

It gives it a nice BITE and that high "g" is many trad. versions Ive looked at… the phrase "cBAc BAGB|A4A4" is ok on the 2nd part, but again is probably "softer" than trad. versions I know

try- ccAc |BAGB| A4A4 :|

Your not wrong, just different… and I often vary it myself.

ccAd BAGB | A4 A4 :|

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKOvT55wB18

play video

Interesting how he bluegrasses it up and it the same time simplifies the tune…

I know Im old fashioned for my age but the you tube clip sums up to me how much Ive grown to dislike the modern bluegrass movement… sure its fast and flshy but IMO the tune is slaughtered in comparison to what the older generation would do with a tune… check out this link of a transcription of Frosty Morn from a real old time fiddler Henry Reed of Va…

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=afcreed&fileName=reedt035/afcreedreedt035.db&recNum=0&itemLink=D?afcreed:22:./temp/~ammem_stmX::

Real Appalachian music is subtle, complex, but simple at the same time….many think they have it licked - others drive themselves mad working on it and some can actually do it… sort of like the Irish music… or any good music.

Just wanted to say that I think this guy on you tube is a good player… it’s my respect for what came before that leads me to my comments… but that transcription just blows me away!

I prefer Henry Reed too. The link was ‘tongue-in-cheek’…
I found several and that one made me laugh… or was I crying?
😉

We have this from an American source and always understood it to be American. The version the Angels play is more busy and its definitely a reel but its undoubtedly the same tune.
Noel

How about a transcript Noel? I can only say what my bones make of it, and then I followed the link given above with some history, for which I try to keep a healthy skepticism… When I first came to it I found myself playing it as a march, but I wouldn’t bet my life on what my bones say, rattle as they may… Though, this rattling is despite my having been more familiar with it as an old-time piece…many of which do have Scottish and other Celtic roots… Sometimes style and technique in time cover up much, but there usually remains a hint of peat smoke in these things however many hands they may have passed through…

I used to play a version of this on clawhammer banjo. I learned it around thirty years ago from a friend who collected it from a family in…West Virginia, I think. Can’t remember the name. It has a crooked B part, with a couple of pickup notes that add an extra half measure. Next time I get out my banjo, I’ll try to conjure it up and notate it.

That would be nice, I’d like to see that and give it a try…

This tune as titled "Frosty Morn" or "Cold Frosty Morning" etc. is an American tune no doubt… but when discussing the roots of it, I’d agree that it "sounds" Scottish and sounds like a March in context with the past three hundred years of tunes and tune types. The Hetzler’s description that I commented on earlier eludes to a Scottish connection, but I don’t find any clear evidence of this documented other than the way the tune "sounds." I agree with "c" that many marches were once played as dance tunes and it has a "hint of the peat.". Hint of the Peat? Isn’t that a hornpipe?

Try mixing this up with Drunken Sailor. Its a great match.

Here’s a nice Appalachian version from Truman and Adam Price: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVes1imP19M&feature=related

play video

My favourite version of this one is on a bela fleck album which I forget the name of. It has sam bush on fiddle for this track and its phenomonal - totally bluegrassed but hey, thats not a bad thing right?

Nice version here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca9dZuYA-gU

play video

Here’s a recording by bluegrass band Blue Highway, although IMHO the setting has a more oldtime feel than bluegrass.

http://youtu.be/neZ__QNglPM

play video

There are very many old-timey versions of this tune. This is just the one that I happen to know.

Always wonder about video links on this site where most of them are not there anymore, Delete the thing and links if you don’t want it watched.

The tune as I learned it. I suppose a more American version?

Kinda like played by Ian Walsh in the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7da-JlI8Pk

play video

From the playing of Lalla Rookh.

There is a local fiddler who likes to play Cold Frosty Morning at the local Sessions. He also likes to play Kitchen Girl and Over The Waterfall but not always together as a set with Cold Frosty Morning. This man plays a lot of old time folk music with the local folk music group as well as playing fiddle for the dances of the local contra folk dance group. He can play fast enough to do bluegrass but he prefers to play anything but bluegrass. I have been playing music with this character for approximately twenty years now as a backup musician/sideman on either piano or bass.

Laurence

Hey folks! I frequently bring up Cold Frosty Morning at sessions. Sometimes I play the melody, ‘cause I do like it an awful lot, but I also like doing the background chords. The normal progression goes like this:
A:
Am - Am - Am - Am
G - G - G - G
Am - Am - Am - Am
Am - G - Am - Am
B:
Am - Am - Am - Am
G - G - G - G
Am - Am - Am - Am
Am - G - Am - Am

But sometimes I throw in a Dm at the B part, like so:
Am - Am - Am - Am
G - G - G - G
Am - Am - Dm - Dm
Am - G - Am - Am

I usually do it for the last cycle, because it gives this feeling of finality and power. Try it out, and tell me what you think! It seems to have worked for me, nobody’s been complaining.

Hi Cal,
I think that you should re-read some of the comments made on your previous submission that suggested alternative chords to "The Butterfly". A couple that I recall were that there are endless variations that can be made to chord backings, and also, that many people here have been doing this for years (and I doubt they would even think to mention something as ‘trivial’ as your Dm chord alteration. I am not attempting to curb your enthusiasm. Your enthusiasm is good and should be encouraged, but I would at least suggest that it would be better to post suggested alternatives to individual tunes in the tune section.

The tune does flicker onto a D note in in the sixth bar of the second part.
It’s rather like a suspended fourth.
So with a ‘standard’ A minor chord underneath, the melody implies a suspension (Am sus 4 spelt A, C, D, E).
A chord such as D minor (D, F, A) certainly matches the D in the melody but since the Dm chord is borrowed from a different mode to the mode that the tune’s in (A dorian), it sounds a bit heavy handed.
The trouble is that F nat. The Fs in A dorian are F sharp.
A Dmaj chord (D, F#, A) works better for me.
But as Gobby said, a tiny and trivial harmonic ornament such as this over two beats of a speeding reel is really unimportant!

Thanks guys! Don’t get me wrong, I understand how various and fluid chord progressions are. I just like throwing things out there. I’ll make sure to restrict specific things like this to the Tune section from now on.

This version attempts to get a middle of the road setting of the many and variable settings across the internet and is very close to the one on " Mando lesson " and " MandolinUK " on youtube. I think it is also pretty close to how some of the "oldtimers" are playing it .

The version of this tune by NfldWhistler is closest to the version which we play at the local Irish Sessions and for the dances of the contra dance/folk dance society. Last year when the local contra dance/folk dance group felt it was safe to start dancing again, I was asked to play my acoustic string bass with the band for this society. Yes I am enjoying playing for the dances and yes the same fiddler whom I mentioned earlier plays this tune both at the local Sessions and for the dance society.

Laurence