Ridee three-two

This is a rough transcription from McGoldrick’s take on Ridee. I found it to be in three so I assumed it was a waltz. Great tune. I recommend hearing the recording and listening to all of the little changes McGoldrick pulls on his flute. Definitely a keeper for all flute players, whistle, etc. 🙂

Right. Being this my first submission, I forgot to credit the composer, who is D. Moynahin. By the way, this tune goes along with Paperbird https://thesession.org/tunes/2510 . Great pair, eh?

X: 1
T: Laridé à Six Temps
M: 3/2
L: 1/8
R: waltz
K: Bmin
|: ffBf fefg fedc | Bcde fedc edcB :|
fBcd B2 gB cd B2 | ABcd edcd dc B2 |
fBcd B2 gB cd B2 | ABcd edcd cB B2 ||

This tune is well-known in Brittany, since it’s a traditional. Diarmaid Moynihan composed only the second tune, “Paperbird”, that they played toghether, with Calico.

“Ridee” is not really a title : it’s the name of the dance… so it’s not a waltz, it’s a ridée ! The ridée is a collective dance from the south of Brittany, in circle, with quite fast arms moves, and the steps are based on a 6 beats (“6 temps”) cycle. Some ridées, like this one, are composed of 12 beats parts : they are usually written in 3/4 (not in 6/8). But some ridées are constructed on a less regular basis, and it doesn’t seem to bother the dancers.
This ridée has no specific title, like most of the instrumental tunes in Brittany. There are dozens of ridées. Only those that are sung with words have a title.
Other examples of ridées played by Irish musicians :
Oisin McAuley, “Far from the Hills of Donegal” album : track 6, “Gilles Le Bigot’s Swing and Tears” ;
Lunasa, “Redwood” album : track 4, “Fest-noz” ;
Celtic Fiddle Festival, “Rendez-vous” album : track 8, the melody “Le coeur de pierre” is followed by 3 or 4 themes of ridée…

Thanks fiddlebzh, I’m figthing a toothache and it is winning I think. I cut and pasted the headers and forgot to switch the T & R from this one when I did the note corrections… In Breizh, as you will not doubt know, some folks notate the ‘laridé à six temps’ as 3/2… Interesting you note this particular melody as being a regular. It isn’t one I recognized, but worked on others I do know to try to make sense of it… I have seen some space it like so, and others where the swing ‘>’ is included in the notation ~

X: 1134
T: X
M: 3/2
L: 1/8
R: Laridé à Six Temps
K: Bmin
|: ff Bf fe fg fe dc | Bc de fe dc ed cB :|
fB cd B2 gB cd B2 | AB cd ed cd dc B2 |
fB cd B2 gB cd B2 | AB cd ed cd cB B2 ||

I have also seen some trascriptions that were given as 6/4, but I don’t feel that does the rhythm of this tune and dance form justice…

If you look at Jeffrey’s original ABC’s you’ll see where I went wrong, cutting and pasting and not finishing the edit ~ here it is, just in case he finally comes back here and does the good thing or at least correcting the ABC’s ~

X: 1
T: Ridee
M: 3/4
L: 1/8
R: waltz
K: Bmin
ffB ffe|fgf edc|Bcd efe|dce dcB:|
fBc dB2|gBc dB2|ABc ded|cdd cB2|
fBc dB2|gBc dB2|ABc ded|cdc BB2||

~ as ~ Submitted on April 4th 2007 by Jeffery.

How is it that a 3/4 tune (whether entitled as a waltz or not) is notated with two pairs of triplets making it playable as a jig? A 3/4 tune should have 3 clear beats to the bar whereas two pairs of triplets gives 2 main beats to the bar. i.e 6/8 . I have no complaint with the actual melody as a 6/8 tune but it does give me a bit of a short curcuit for the time signature to be so contradictory.

I do have a few Ridee’s in 2/4.

They are one or the other, 2/4 (2/2) & 3/4 (3/2)…

I have just played it as a 3/4 and it sound right also but I really had to work and think hard at re-reading the rhythm. in fact here are two different tunes. so which one are we to play then. And should not the music notation make it clear?

Thanks so much everyone for helping me out with this one. The necessary changes are made. It’s a nice tune to know, but I don’t know how the dance goes. 🙂 I’ll find out in due time…

That’s it Jeffery, but think of it as 3 pulses rather than 6. I only gave that 6 one as an example. The first example is more in keeping with the form, and it can be notated either way, 3/4 or 3/2. After getting some transcripts in 3/2 I started favouring them that way. But as 3’s the grouping would be as first given…

After I made the changes it started making sense and I like it. As said, it wasn’t one I was familiar with. You did a fair transcription despite the initial setup… Well done…

But then, they are want to call it ‘six temps’ and I have seen it the way you now have it as well… Thanks for the tune, nice… 😉

thank you Jeffery for the clarification. Would certainly recommend listening to the track on the CD “Fused”. It is much faster than I had first thought without having listened to the track.

“Speed” was likely the true confuser…

This has been bugging me all day so I sat down, (more restful than standing) listened with the intention of transposing it myself and I’m sorry to say but I am sure you’ve both not got it quite right.
There is a lead-in note. very crucial and that is what I think has thrown the rhythm out. From youir abc’s it still did not sound right.
here is mine:

M: 3/4
L: 1/8
K: D
|: f | fc f2 ef | gf ed cB | cd ef e2 | ce dc B :||
fB cd B2 | gB cd B2 | AB cd ed | ce dc cB | fB cd B2 | gB cd B2 | AB cd ed | ce dc B2 ||

McGoldrick plays many variations throughout but this is the basis in the first couple of times through. glad to say that “Speed” was not the confuser but did help me to realise something was amiss so in some ways it bacame the “clarifier”. A pity that the notation here cannot be altered - Or can it??

bar 1 should be, | fB f2 ef |

sorry!

Maybe… I heard McGoldrick play it the way I wrote it though. Either way is cool.

Oh yes, another thing. I had a little help with the speed part by slowing down the tune on windows media player. Anywho, I’ll listen again and see what you mean by the lead in note… Btw sorry, I accidently missed your previous edit (that is, the correction that was not just the first bar). I’ll keep your pointer in mind though… I’m quite sure you are much better at transcribing than I.

Key signature: b minor
Submitted on July 18th 2006 by festourobin.
https://thesession.org/tunes/5976

And this is one I am familiar with… I don’t have McGoldrick’s recording to make any comparisons with, only Breton, but the way it was given here only confused me… 😏 Then with your take on it Hetty I half remembered it was already here ~ and yes, it is… Here are those ABC’s as well:

X: 1
T: Ridée Six Temps
M: 3/2
L: 1/8
R: Laridé à Six Temps
K: Bmin
|: BffB f2 (3fef gfed | c2 cd ef e2 cedc :|
|: Bz B2 cdBz B2 cd | Bz B2 cded cedc :|

I have at least a dozen other tunes in the same vein, but haven’t felt they should be necessarily added to the database here…

~ trying to make sense of just the notes given from what I am more familiar with, here’s a rehash of Hetty’s take on it, followed by Jeffrey’s notes for it given a similar slash and rearrange:

X: 1134
T: X
M: 3/2
L: 1/8
R: Laridé à Six Temps
K: b minor
|: Bffc f2 ef gfed | cBcd ef e2 cedc :|
B2 fB cd B2 gBcd | B2 AB cded cedc :|

X: 1134
T: X
M: 3/2
L: 1/8
R: Laridé à Six Temps
K: b minor
|: BffB ffef gfed | cBcd efed cedc :|
|: B2 fB cd B2 gB cd | B2 AB cded cddc :|

Personally, while it isn’t ‘exactly’ as I know it, I prefer the earlier transcription from festourobin…

Really, the B-part should fall into what happens with some tunes in this vein, where if not the whole thing, the B-part is given as being 3/4, or this way, all three versions:

|: Bz B2 cd | Bz B2 cd | Bz B2 cd | ed ce dc :| ~ festourobin
|: B2 fB cd | B2 gB cd | B2 AB cd | ed cd dc :| ~ Jeffrey
|: B2 fB cd | B2 gB cd | B2 AB cd | ed ce dc :| ~ Hetty

Now, also, the relationship should be clear… It is the same tune…

Really? Before I submitted my transcription of this tune I did an ‘Advanced Search’ and typed in the first few notes to see if there was an overlap. apparently it didn’t come up? Anywho… I’ll try to submit more tunes later… I tried my best 🙂. But, I guess not a lot was lost in this. We’ve just gained a whole lot of variations to try out. ;)

😉 That’s the attitude!

First, “ridées six temps” means “ridée in six time.” This should clear up the confusion heard earlier. Second, and obviously, they should be written in 6/8… And the Irish scratch their head. “Wouldn’t that make it a jig?” Sean inquires. “No” Yann replies. “It is danced in 3 groups of 2 instead of 2 groups of 3, which makes it a VERY different tune compared to a jig.”

Also, There is no such thing as a “Laridé à Six Temps.” there are “Laridé” (in cut time), and “Laridé huit temps” (in 8 time). Ridées six temps are from Redon in southwestern Brittany. Laridé are from further west, and Laridé huit temps are from western Brittany. Different dances, different tunes all. Just like a reel and a hornpipe are different tunes.

There will be a test at the end of the week. Perhaps if you kids went to the source (Breton musicians) instead of getting these kinds of tunes from Irish musicians, we wouldn’t have to do this!

Ridées six temps are from Redon in southEASTERN Brittany…

Ridée six temps ~ Yes, and three count in a measure is usually signified by the first number in the key signature, or “3”. “6” is taken as duple, not treble, or two beats to the bar. There is nothing wrong, whatsoever, with counting a “3” as 12, 34, 56 ~ which, surprise, surprise, is “six temps”!!! So, while 6/8 IS completely inappropriate for the key signature for Ridées six temps ~ having a “3” in the maths is perfect, and in this case 3/2 works beautifully…and 6/8 (duple time) would be cack…

I just came back to this today to look at the comments again. I have an announcement about this tune. Hetty, you are right. I apologise for my ignorance. I took the ABC and played it over a few times, and then compared it to mine, and I saw why that lead in was crucial. It was my first transcript, so I guess there is a bit to excuse me there, but I apologise for not listening to someone more “seasoned” than I. Anywho, I’m going to work this tune into a set now… any suggestions of what to have with it?

Sorry guys, I completely disagree. It is the B-part and the fun with rhythm there that is confusing things. Here it is yet again, but with some liberal barring and given in 6/4 ~

X: 1
T: Ridee
M: 6/4
L: 1/8
R: Laridé à Six Temps
K: Bmin
|: Bf fB f2 ef gf ed | cB cd ef e2 ce dc :|
[M:1/4] B2 | fB cd B2 gB cd B2 | AB cd ed ce dc cB |
fB cd B2 gB cd B2 | [M:5/4] AB cd ed ce dc ||

I don’t personally think that the following makes sense ~

M: 3/4
L: 1/8
K: D
|: f | fc f2 ef | gf ed cB | cd ef e2 | ce dc B :||
fB cd B2 | gB cd B2 | AB cd ed | ce dc cB | fB cd B2 | gB cd B2 | AB cd ed | ce dc B2 ||

“I have also seen some trascriptions that were given as 6/4, but I don’t feel that does the rhythm of this tune and dance form justice…” ~ myself

~ on the contrary, it is another way to give justice to the melody ~ as is also true in a similar Irish case with the slide now being more usually transcribed as 12/8…to better represent phrasing…

While 9/8 can be barred in Ireland 3-3-3, and elsewhere 3-2-2-2, etc. ~ 6/4 is more naturally groupe as 3-3, and 2-2-2 (3x2), more likely to be represented as 3/… That said, I can understand, as previously mentioned, why some would do it as 6/4 and 1-1-1-1-1-1, or 1-2-3-4-5-6…

| 1-2-3-4-5-6 | ~ (1-2-3) (4-5-6) ~ | 1-2-3 | 1-2-3 |

______
- | 6 | H
- | 5 | R
H | 4 |
L | 3 |
- | 2 | R
L | 1 |
______
Read from here up ~ 1 - 6
L = step L
R = step R
H = hop/skip

& the other related form ~ Laridé à Huit (8) Temps, and again, it is about the ‘dance’…

~ more to follow, about mixed bars / meters…

That is the key, however, I’ve gone and dusted off my collections of Laridé / Ridée, Six & Huit, and ~ mixed bars, or meters, are not at all unusual, maybe some Quebecois influence is at work. I have Six Temps tunes that are composed of a mix of bar lengths, and if we take 6/4 as the basic to compare with, rather than 3/2, here are some of the bars I have mixed into different tunes, starting with the obvious ~
6/4 (3/2)
5/4
4/4 (2/2)
7/4

So, the primary beat can move around and the basic dance continues, catching up with that pulse now and then. That is some of the allowable play of the form, like with Irish musicians who used to vary tempo for a lark, in this case it is varying the position of that main beat, a kind of tease that isn’t just available to and used by the Bretons.

I also have a transcription of THIS TUNE that is built from 6/4, 5/4 & 7/4 bars…

The following is based on one of those mixed bar / meter transcriptions, but trying to use the basic tune given here. The sad tendency of those of use raised on a certain thing, is to try to make other things meet our expectations of them. The sadness is wayt we miss in trying to force the unexpected into our expectations. Sometimes it is best to just let go and let a thing do what it will, without too much interference on our part, or on the part of our expectations, don’t yuh think? 😏

X: 1
T: Ridee
M: 6/4 (to start)
L: 1/8
R: Laridé à Six Temps
K: b minor
Bf f2 ef gf ed c2 | [M:5/4] cd ef e2 ce dc |
[M:7/4] Bf fB f2 ef gf ed c2 | [M:5/4] cd ef e2 ce dc |
[M:6/4] B2 fB cd B2 gB cd | B2 AB cd ed ce dc |
B2 fB cd B2 gB cd | [M:7/4] B2 AB cd ed ce dc |]

X: 1
T: Ridee
M: 6/4 (to start)
L: 1/8
R: Laridé à Six Temps
K: b minor
Bf f2 ef gf ed c2 |
[M:5/4] cd ef e2 ce dc | [M:7/4] Bf
fB f2 ef gf ed c2 |
[M:5/4] cd ef e2 ce dc | [M:6/4] B2
fB cd B2 gB cd | B2
AB cd ed ce dc | B2
fB cd B2 gB cd | [M:7/4] B2
AB cd ed ce dc |]

6 temps x 8 ~ at least this one returns you back to the beginning… 😎

That is why, for the ‘DANCE’, the tune, despite that mix, is more usually transcribed as 3/2 or 6/4…

yeah i do agree with hetty that the lead in has a better feel of the tune, in the original transcription, it doesn’t quite feel right

anyways, i tweaked hetty’s abc’s to clarify how the first section repeats

X: 1
T: Ridee
M: 3/4
L: 1/8
K: D
|: f | fB f2 ef | gf ed cB | cd ef e2 |[1 ce dc Bf:|[2 ce dc B2 ||
fB cd B2 | gB cd B2 | AB cd ed | ce dc cB |
fB cd B2 | gB cd B2 | AB cd ed | ce dc B2 |

oops, correction , the lead in should be left out of the repeat

X: 1
T: Ridee
M: 3/4
L: 1/8
K: D
f |: fB f2 ef | gf ed cB | cd ef e2 |[1 ce dc Bf:|[2 ce dc B2 ||
fB cd B2 | gB cd B2 | AB cd ed | ce dc cB |
fB cd B2 | gB cd B2 | AB cd ed | ce dc B2 |

~ a la ‘laridee’, who has a better understanding of this than us…

X: 666
T: Ridée six temps
M: 6/4
L: 1/8
R: Ridées six temps
K: Bmin
K: b minor
|: Bf fB f2 ef gf ed | cB cd ef e2 ce dc :|
B2 fB cd B2 gB cd | B2 AB cd ed ce dc :|

& to finish it ~ | B6 |]…

Any1 knows the fingering Michael use when he played the third octave D E F in the set “Ridee and Paperbird”
I find it is so hard to learn.