The Butlers Of Glen Avenue jig

I got this off Kevin Crawford’s first solo record ("D Flute Album"). A nice little tune - the first one is good too.

I’m a little confused about the third measure. Would you mind taking another look at it?

Mark

That should get it. Thanks for catching that typo.

Do you happen to know the name of the first tune of these two tunes on Kevin Crawford’s "D-Flute" album? The track is titled "Christy Barry’s Set".

As I far as I know (and I may well be very wrong here), the first tune in the set is "The Roaring Barmaid" and this tune, the second, is "The Butlers Of Glen Avenue".

Now, a lot of confusion arises because the first tune is also (kind of incorrectly) known as "The Butlers Of Glen Avenue". It was recorded under that title by Lunasa and Danu.

I don’t have the Kevin Crawford album to hand. Could anyone confirm that the first tune in the set is the same tune played on the Lunasa and Danu albums?

I’ve always called them both "Christy Barry’s" and "No, the other Christy Barry’s", the titles being interchangeable.

Jeremy,
The first tune on the Christy Barry set as recorded by Kevin Crawford set is not "The Roaring Barmaid".
The tune listed on the Lunasa "Otherworld" album as "The Butlers Of Glen Avenue" is in fact "The Roaring Barmaid".
The Christy Barry #2 is "The Butlers Of Glen Avenue" composed by Anthony Sullivanwho also composed "The Roaring Barmaid".
Clear so far?
The name and origin of the Christy Barry #1 are as yet a mystery. Who is Christy Barry anyway?

I’m afraid I can’t help on the names for these two great jigs but Christy Barry is a well known Clare musician who plays flute and whistle and has recently made a CD along with accordion player, Conor McCarthy.

Christy Barry’s set, as played by Kevin Crawford on his "D Flute Album", consists of two jigs. The first is called "Christy Barry’s", composed by Christy himself. The second is "The Butlers Of Glen Avenue" by banjo player Tony Sullivan. Lunasa’s and Danu’s "Butler’s" is actually "The Roaring Barmaid" by Tony Sullivan. Mike McGoldrick recorded "The Roaring Barmaid" under its correct name.

Does anybody read the previous posts?

I’m surprised in all the commentary that nobody bothered to review the posted abcs and note how "off" they are. A closer transcription of Crawford’s playing (without all of the variations he tosses in) goes as follows:

X: 1
T: Butler of Glen Avenue
C: Tony Sullivan
M: 6/8
L: 1/8
R: jig
K: Gmaj
DEG EDB| DEG ~B3 |DEG B2 e| dBe dBA|
DEG EDB| DEG ~B3|dB/c/d gfe|1 dBA ~G3:|2 dBa ~g3||
gab age|deg ~B3|gab gab| dB/c/d e{f}e d|
gab age|deg ~B3 |dB/c/d gfe|1 dea ~g3:|2 dBA ~G3||

Fiddlers and banjoists can play the Bs in the 1st and 5th bars of the A part as B, - an octave below what’s posted here, to great effect (and probably closer to Mr. Sullivan’s original).

Nothing like the one in the Lunasa book.

Avery, that’s cuz the lads got the name wrong—they applied the wrong name to the tune (which is Roaring Barmaid, unless my dizzy spells have worsened).

Professional recordings are in error more than you’d think regarding tune names. Some tunes have multiple names as well. Some tunes have progressive names depending on who played them frequently. Sorting it out can sometimes resemble detective work. Someone should sit down with Paddy Fahey, John Brady, the Dwyers etc. and have them come up with names for their tunes… or maybe not.

What’s in a name anyway? I guess Danu made the same mistake I wonder where they learned it…

This really is an awful transcription. One of my friends was going to use it to learn the tune and I made him screw it up and throw it out.

I recorded Christy himself play this tune in a workshop in West Clare. This is the second one of all the four jigs in the set. K. Crawford recorded only first two of them. As said above, Christy actually recorded it on the CD he made with Conor McCarthy and Cyril O’Donoghue.

To add to or claify the confusion, Natalie MacMaster has a nice, driving version of this tune (and not The Roaring Barmaid) on her album Blueprint.

And I agree that the main version here is not to be used. whoosis’s version above is much closer to the one I play (and have heard). But, as always, get a good recording first (any of the above will do nicely, or find a good player willing to teach it to you), and take all transcriptions (including mine) with a large grain of salt.

Tim

in my opinion whoosis’ version is the nicest and it is always the way we play it. although in the second part we just play the second time bar both times….. in my opinion that’s nicer too.

does it really matter if your vewrsion is close to the way the person origionally wrote the tune….can’t it be your own interpretation? you nerver know, mabye the composer would prefer the way you tweaked it ……

anyway….. i know it by "The butlers of glen avenue"

and play this tune often and throuraghally (sp??) enjoy playing it….

Chris Droney calls this Sully’s Fancy on his Fertile Rock album.

Key signature: G Major
Submitted on April 2nd 2007 by megachug.

& this pulled back from the future, for fear Dow’s plea will pass unheaded… (see below) :-(

X: 1
T: Butlers Of Glen Avenue, The
C: Anthony "Sully" Sullivan
M: 6/8
L: 1/8
R: jig
K: Gmaj
|: DEG ED,B | DEG B3 | DEG ABe | dBe dBA |
DEG ED,B | DEG B3 | dBd gfe | dBA G3 :|
|: gab age | deg B3 | gab gab | dBd e2 d |
gab age | deg B3 | dBd gfe | dBA G3 :|

Comments:

"There seems to be a bit of confusion about this tune - it’s already listed on this website as "The Roaring Barmaid". However, it’s actually a different tune. The Roaring Barmaid is listed as "The Butlers of Glen Avenue" on Lunasa’s Otherworld album - I reckon this was a mistake on their part (although the tunes have one or two similarities). This version of The Butlers of Glen Avenue is on Natalie Macmaster’s Blueprint album, and the liner notes says it was written by Tony Sullivan."

# Posted on April 2nd 2007 by megachug

"I have a couple of old tune books by Anthony Sullivan. Sully’s Irish Music Book published in 1979 lists both of his compositions. This is indeed the correct title (#63) and The Roaring Barmaid (#70) is what Lunansa refers to as the Butlers of Glen. Mike McGoldrick recorded The Roaring Barmaid under the correct title. Its a simple enough mistake, but when a groups as popular as Lunansa and Danu both use the incorrect name, it seems to carry a lot of weight."

# Posted on April 2nd 2007 by StephenR

"Please don’t delete this, Jeremy, I beg of you. The other transcription is inaccurate. This one’s really good."

# Posted on April 2nd 2007 by Dow

Megachug’s transcript above, I’d just cut-n-paste-n-ran with it, in trust, the comma I didn’t catch, and it seems others initially missed it as well… Here are the corrections, one over ~

|: DEG EDB, | ~ | DEG EDB, | ~ bars 1 & 5 of the A-part…

X: 1
T: Butlers Of Glen Avenue, The
C: Anthony "Sully" Sullivan
M: 6/8
L: 1/8
R: jig
K: Gmaj
|: DEG EDB, | DEG B3 | DEG ABe | dBe dBA |
DEG EDB, | DEG B3 | dBd gfe | dBA G3 :|
|: gab age | deg B3 | gab gab | dBd e2 d |
gab age | deg B3 | dBd gfe | dBA G3 :|

It seems my version got deleted - fair enough. But is it possible for somebody please fix up the links from recordings so that they’re directed to the right tune (e.g. Lunasa’s recording linked to The Roaring Barmaid and Natalie MacMaster’s recording linked to Christy Barrys’)? It’s really confusing for a new person to the site such as me.

C’est la vie! Notes have been sent to you about options and maybe you can make the difference by contacting the contributors of the recordings and the transcripts. Only the person who made the orginal submission can edit it, a responsibility Jeremy generally leaves up to the individual, with respect… Good luck…

Key signature: G Major
Submitted on July 23rd 2007 by JACKB.
~ /tunes/7529

This transcription was note-for-note identical to Megachug’s transcript. The curiosity, as raised by slainte ~

"Now I wonder where the title "Ballyconnell" comes from. Never heard it called that way. Jack, please share more info with us?"

# Posted on July 23rd 2007 by slainte

"This transcription was note-for-note identical to Megachug’s transcript."

Except Jack’s had a high B in bar 1 for flute/pipes.

The original posted setting of this should be made illegal, and the person who posted it should be punished with 100 whip lashes. Some ear training is in order, I think, before posting tunes to a website like this.

In email conversation with the Sheila part of Sheila and Christy, I was informed that this tune, as well as Christy Barry’s # 1 were both composed by Christy Barry in the ’70s.

I procured the written music for both tunes from the Irish Traditional Music Archives in Dublin and the tunes are simply named Christy Barry’s #1and #2.

I played with Mr. Barry at a session in Doolin. He didn’t make any comment re: the names for these tunes, so I presume there are none. He seemed so easy going and laid back that I’m not sure he would get upset about the confusion re: the tune titles. However, on his own recording of the two tunes, they are simply called "Christy Barry’s Set".

Great tunes, both!

Great tune, nice version played here by Gerry O’Connor, Paul McSherry and Martin O’Hare, the third tune.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpAkgNhImjU&feature=related

play video

Here it is played by Sean Og Graham, Eamon Murray, Stevie Dunn and Gerd Thompson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omo_11jyDkA

play video

smitty, could you post #1 for us? Here and/or as a separate tune? I heard the late P.J. Crotty play "Christy Barry’s Jigs" on Clare FM’s "The West Wind" program recently and am smitten by the tunes. They demand that I learn them, which I am quite happy doing by ear from the recording, but I would enjoy having the tune as the man himself played it. For one of my settings at least.

the other Christy Barry’s of Christy Barry’s set is at: https://thesession.org/tunes/843

Also available here! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yroJnkxVBpU

play video

…with Bb s in.

I’ve met people who still think this jig was written by Tony Sullivan. Has anyone got to hand where the claim originally came from (i.e. his tune book?) or can we just drop that urban myth now?

"…The Christy Barry #2 is "The Butlers Of Glen Avenue" composed by Anthony Sullivan…"
# Posted by milesnagopaleen 11 years ago.

"…In email conversation with the Sheila part of Sheila and Christy, I was informed that this tune, as well as Christy Barry’s # 1 were both composed by Christy Barry in the ’70s.
I procured the written music for both tunes from the Irish Traditional Music Archives in Dublin and the tunes are simply named Christy Barry’s #1and #2…"
# Posted by c.smitty 3 years ago.

I have a copy of Sully’s Irish Music Book vol. 1 before me which is dated 1979 and says includes 33 original compositions. He places his name as composer of both The Butlers of Glen and The Roaring Barmaid. I keep seeing a lot of references above attributing them to Christy Barry based on him playing them or others having attributed them to him. I seriously doubt that Sully himself would have published them as his own compositions back in the 70’s if they were not.

About 40 seconds into the video on
http://theirishtenorbanjo.ning.com/video/the-butlers-of-glen-avenue

You’ll see this notice:




[The Butlers of Glen Avenue/The Roaring Barmaid

Composed and recorded by Tony Sullivan (AKA Sully). Copyright registered in full name Anthony Sullivan.

I composed these in the late 1970s for playing in my group "SULLIVAN’S PRIVATE STOCK". The set was released on my 1981 album - "Sully’s Fancy" by Tony Sullivan… …which is now available as a download.

The "dots" are in SULLY’S IRISH MUSIC BOOK…

Correcting an error:

"The Butlers" has been wrongly attributed as CHRISTY BARRY’S JIG due to a well known Irish musician putting it on a record - but not knowing the correct name (or writer of). In one case a group got the names right but mixed up - "The Roaring Barmaid" is often called "The Butlers" and vice-versa!.

I thank everybody for playing my tunes: it is a great compliment to me and I hope everybody will continue to enjoy them.
But I hope you can set the record right and give me the credit due.]

It is good to have the record set straight here. Perhaps the tendency of a tune to escape appropriate attribution to its original author is one mark of the greatness of the tune (and a predictor of the tune’s permanent place in the tradition). But at this point Christy Barry’s name seems to be pretty firmly attached to this particular tune, regardless of the noted facts.

Not that confusion won’t continue to pile up. This particular tune (properly titled ‘The Butlers of Glen Avenue’, as noted) shows up in Josephine Keegan’s 2004 tune book "A Drop in the Ocean" under the interesting title ‘Briege’s Boston Jig’. Perhaps someone can supply an explanation for this further misattribution.

x

This tune is Christy Barry jig, not the Butlers of Glen Avenue.
Butlers of Glen Avenue was composed by Anthony Sully Sullivan, from Maclesfield Nr Manchester UK.
It was indeed recorded by Lunasa.

To settle this once and for all, this is the definitive setting of "The Butlers Of Glen Avenue", taken from page #21 - tune #63 - of "Sully’s Irish Music Book", published in 1979. The copyright for this tune resides with it’s composer, Anthony "Sully" Sullivan, and "Halshaw Music".
"Sully" himself recorded "The Butlers Of Glen Avenue" followed by "The Roaring Barmaid" as track #1 on his solo LP record "Sully’s Fancy", released in 1981. Link here :

https://thesession.org/recordings/3575

The sleeve notes say - "The titles refer to Mr. and Mrs. Johnny Butler, friends of mine in Manchester, and to a particularly noisy barmaid in one of Manchester’s many music pubs".

Christy Barry recorded it in 2002, some 23 years after Sully published it, - and apart from that, has no claim on it, [ and indeed, as far as I am aware, he has never made any claim on it ].
It’s not "Christy Barry’s jig", any more than any of the other compositions by the likes of Paddy O’Brien or Brendan McGlinchey on that recording are "Christy Barry’s Reels". It was given a perfectly good title by it’s composer, and I think that should be respected. Hope that clears matters up.
Incidentally, that recording - link below - is one of the best ever live pub recordings of Irish music I’ve come across.

https://thesession.org/recordings/524

Surprised that no one thought to look for this before :

https://youtu.be/TXbmQPjie9s

play video

Kenny’s video isn’t working any more, so here’s a new link to Tony Sullivan’s version, posted to Youtube by the composer: https://youtu.be/9ZU_auxCH-0

play video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78EI81nGdFc

play video